An analysis into overrated fighters & the ongoing battle between the "veterans" & the "casual fans".

[Ragnus]

I was recently fortunate enough to have a discussion in a forum post with a Frankie Edgar fan that quickly went south (I will post the conversation at the end of this post) and basically, we had a debate about whether Frankie is underrated or overrated.

I am of the opinion that Frankie is overrated. My personal opinion is that the massive overrating of top current fighters has caused fans to overrated their own favourite fighters in retaliation. I think Frankie being overrated is a product of Conor McGregor being overrated. I must quickly note I'm not talking about satire posts like "Conor is the GOAT", "Conor would KO khabib in 1 sec", "Conor would KO stipe in one second", I'm talking more about fans who legitimately think Conor is P4P number 1.

BTW Conor & Frankie aren't the only overrated or underrated fighters. I personally believe Frankie fans (usually synonymous with veteran fans) are fed up with Conor McGregor fans (usually synonymous with casual fans) and they have begun a war where they retaliate by overrating their preferred fighter.

This is very common it happens between khabib and tony fans, stipe and Ngannou fans, max and Aldo fans (prior to their first fight). This war is ongoing in debates about the upcoming UFC 220 card. The veteran fans are picking DC & Stipe and the casual fans are picking Oezdemir and Ngannou and there seems to be some massive overrating and underrating going on.

We need to all collectively on Sherdog come together and point out each fights potential strengths and weaknesses in upcoming fights and make sure we only underrate and overrate when it is completely necessary. Inbetween these discussions some satire can be used but we must make it clear that we are being satirical so a fan doesn't respond by overrating their favourite fighter. Google Poe's Law for more info.

TLDR: we need to stop overrating or exaggerating a fighter's strengths because it creates this effect where other fans than in turn overrate their favourite fighter so Sherdog just becomes filled with this war between the vets and casuals and massive overrating is going on in-between.

Edgar is so fucking underrated

quite the opposite, Edgar is very much overrated.

He's actually hilariously underrated.

in what way hahaha, I've never seen him underrated once the guy is chronically overrated, he is the number 2 contender and people act like he is a current 2 weight world champion. People complain about him being the underdog when you verse aldo and max rightfully so he should be the underdog.

Yeah, he should be the underdog. He is smaller than Max and Aldo, yet was the 155 champ. lol

and he gets full credit for that, every forum post about Frankie there's 10 people reminding you he was the former 155champ, okay he gets the credit for that, that's not someone who is underrated, no one has ever underrated him it's this weird conspiracy Frankie fans make up to create some narrative that Frankie is against the world and the ufc hate him and everyone wants him to lose. The world isn't against Frankie.

You underrate him. You are against Frankie. You are not the world though. You're just one person.

my god you just proved my point the irony is so strong, I haven't given one criticism of frankie, not one and im underrating him? personally, I choose to rate people how they are, frankie is a former champ at 155 and the number 2 contender, a soon to be hall of famer, he is not current p4p simple... that isn't underrating him.

You think he sucks and couldn't beat Cody Mackenzie and think Artem Lobov would 50-40 him.

Keep underrating Frankie.

Let me know when you manage to get past the step of being a casual MMA fan.

That day and only that day, can you have a big boy conversation with someone like me. Until then, keep being in another world of delusion.

 

[Hairrow]

I have ADHD. Whats the synopsis?

 

[Ragnus]

I have ADHD. Whats the synopsis?

there's a TLDR at the bottom.

 

[Hairrow]

there's a TLDR at the bottom.

I think it would be great if posters were to stop hyping and over-rating fighters, not gonna happen though.

 

[abiG]

 

[Ragnus]

I think it would be great if posters were to stop hyping and over-rating fighters, not gonna happen though.

yeah i think you're right and im assuming thats going to be the general response.

 

[Breaking]

Frankie is a great fighter. Anyone who know anything knows this to be true. Is the in the GOAT discussion? No. Should he be Hall of Famer? Doubtlessly.

But is anyone really making the case that he’s among the GOATs?

Conor has all the makings of greatness, but still needs to defend against top competitors.

People want to crown him as the GOAT, despite the fact that he hasn’t done The things that any of the other people in the GOAT discussion (Anderson, Fedor, GSP, Jones) have done.

That makes Conor overrated.

 

[Ragnus]

Frankie is a great fighter. Anyone who know anything knows this to be true. Is the in the GOAT discussion? No. Should he be Hall of Famer? Doubtlessly.

But is anyone really making the case that he’s among the GOATs?

Conor has all the makings of greatness, but still needs to defend against top competitors.

People want to crown him as the GOAT, despite the fact that he hasn’t done The things that any of the other people in the GOAT discussion (Anderson, Fedor, GSP, Jones) have done.

That makes Conor overrated.

I think both conor and frankie can still get in the GOAT discussion, they're both just about 1 or 2 fights off IMO. Like if conor beats khabib and frankie beats holloway they're both right in there.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

yeah i think you're right and im assuming thats going to be the general response.

the problem is that you're trying to quantify opinions strengthened by confirmation bias and are inherently exponentially subjective.

"how high do 'they' (sherdoggers, fans, whoever you define 'they' as) rate Frankie"? subjective

"should he be rated higher than 'they' already do"? subjective

combine the two sentences above and you get subjective^2.

on top of that exponential subjectivity, you've got confirmation bias. you and that other poster might read the same 100 posts, and you will think 'they' ranked Edgar high, and he will they 'they' ranked Edgar low. why? because you already think so!!

TLDR: this thread is nothing more than verbal wanking. and quit making threads about other threads.

 

[Ragnus]

the problem is that you're trying to quantify something that is inherently exponentially subjective.

"how high do 'they' (sherdoggers, fans, whoever you define 'they' as) rate Frankie"? subjective

"should he be rated higher"? subjective

you trying to quantify how everyone think a fighter should be ranked higher than 'they' do? subjective^2.

on top of that exponential subjectivity, you've got confirmation bias. you and that other poster might read the same 100 posts, and you will think 'they' ranked Edgar high, and he will they 'they' ranked Edgar low. why? because you already think that!!

TLDR: this thread is nothing more than verbal wanking. and quit making threads about other threads.

This is complete subjectivity I'm not denying that that's why I made it very clear that this was my opinion. Just a hypothesis, of course, I can never prove this, I'm not going to use the scientific method for a discussion in a forum.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

This is complete subjectivity I'm not denying that that's why I made it very clear that this was my opinion.

glad you enjoyed your wank

 

[Breaking]

I think both conor and frankie can still get in the GOAT discussion, they're both just about 1 or 2 fights off IMO. Like if conor beats khabib and frankie beats holloway they're both right in there.

No way. Conor probably needs ten title defenses.

I think time is probably up on GOAT status for Frankie—especially with the way he lost to Aldo. That said, if he wins the title, gets a second wind, and puts together 5 or 6 defenses, I’d put him in there.

 

[rurouni]

 

[Ragnus]

No way. Conor probably needs ten title defenses.

I think time is probably up on GOAT status for Frankie—especially with the way he lost to Aldo. That said, if he wins the title, gets a second wins, and puts together 5 or 6 defenses, I’d put him in there.

Personally, I think that's impossible and if they did what you just recommended they'd both be by far the GOAT and it wouldn't even be close, personally I judge GOAT status on resume, not statistics.

 

[Furious77]

Why you hate Frankie bro?

 

[Breaking]

Personally, I think that's impossible and if they did what you just recommended they'd both be by far the GOAT and it wouldn't even be close, personally I judge GOAT status on resume, not statistics.

The other people in the GOAT discussion did Exactly that...it’s not impossible, but it does take abnormal talent, skill, and consistency—that’s why they are in the GOAT discussion in the first place.

I don’t really understand what you mean about “statistics.” Aren’t statistics a key component to a fighter’s (or any athlete’s) resumé?

What goes on fighter’s resumé if it isn’t their record of accomplishments?

 

[Ragnus]

The other people in the GOAT discussion did Exactly that...it’s not impossible, but it does take abnormal talent, skill, and consistency—that’s why they are in the GOAT discussion in the first place.

I don’t really understand what you mean about “statistics.” Aren’t statistics a key component to a fighter’s (or any athlete’s) resumé?

What goes on fighter’s resumé if it isn’t their record of accomplishments?

Personally, I just think Conor having to add 10 defences on top of beating eddie, nate, aldo, chad, holloway and poirier is impossible and I dont think anyone has done anything close to that before especially with a large amount of finishes. I'll elaborate what I mean is that a fighter can have no defences and still have a better "resume" than a fighter who has 30 title defences, you just have to analyse who the opponents were. Yes, there usually is a correlation between a title defence and versing a top fighter but that isn't always the case.

 

[Breaking]

Personally, I just think Conor having to add 10 defences on top of beating eddie, nate, aldo, chad, holloway and poirier is impossible and I dont think anyone has done anything close to that before especially with a large amount of finishes. I'll elaborate what I mean is that a fighter can have no defences and still have a better "resume" than a fighter who has 30 title defences, you just have to analyse who the opponents were. Yes, there usually is a correlation between a title defence and versing a top fighter but that isn't always the case.

Jones did it. Anderson did it. GSP did it.

Fedor didn’t really (there were a lot of cans in there).

And, realistically, Mighty Mouse is doing it now. If he beats Dillashaw, he’ll proove that he belongs in the discussion.

But there is no reason on earth to think that it’s “impossible” for Conor to do that.—unless what you’re saying is that he’s not good enough to do it.

All he has to do is fight consistently, and be undefeated for about 3 years against top competition. It’s a lot to ask, but that’s why GOATS are rare.

 

[MPD-Psycho]

Wow, this is kinda meta. We gotta go deeper, inception style.

 

[jeff7b9]

Please explain how a guy the size of a bantamweight who won the LW title and defended it 3x is over rated?

(or defended 2x and retained once, I forget)

Frankie's skill and heart are off the fucking fucking charts. That seems to me to be how people "rate" him. Basically the guy who did the most with the least.