amount of seconds to hold on to a choke

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by m3, Apr 2, 2008.

  1. m3

    m3 Orange Belt

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    I have often heard people say that if a choke is applied incorrectly its no point in trying to submit the guy and you just get tired. Sure that is true for guilliotines but is that true for RNC's and triangles? (yes some people dont tap to RNC for up to 3 seconds)

    So, in competition where you might not get another shot at finishing/adjusting a triangle choke how long should you hold on to a choke? I have a theory that just because u cant get the choke in a few seconds that doesnt mean that you should release it and stop. Of course it depends on how its set up but look at the pictures below.
    So try this in training: get a sloppy triangle where their shoulder is free and their arm is not to the side but rather like on the noguiera picture. Then just squeeze the knees together and pull the head... often people tap just with the kneesqueezing after 5 seconds or so... and stubborn sparringpartners hold on longer.

    Perfect triangle:
    [​IMG]

    Triangle that took minotauro 11seconds to finish
    [​IMG]

    Triangle that took Eddie Bravo 15 seconds to finish
    [​IMG]
     
  2. upchurch311

    upchurch311 White Belt

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    hold it till he taps out or passes out... keep holding other wise.
     
  3. davejitsu

    davejitsu Purple Belt

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    Depends on the situation (i.e., time remaining in the match, score, can I transition into something else). With that said, I usually try to hold on until I know he is not gonna tap and I am wasting precious strength that I will need later on in the match.
     
  4. stlnl2

    stlnl2 Blue Belt

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    A perfect choke will usually put a guy out at around 5 seconds. A less than perfect choke can put him out later if he doesnt tap, or could just waste energy.

    I think you have to judge for yourself when you have a guy, if its mostly tight and he is gurgling, chances are he will go if you can keep it at least as tight as you have it at that moment, and you may be able to shift to tighten it. The trade is energy burned, if it takes me no energy to adjust or hold it as is I will, if I think its going to take a big burn on something I can t be sure of I let go.
     
  5. MonkeyNuts!

    MonkeyNuts! Rear Naked Poker

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    Sometimes it's even completely hard to tell, like some people have freaking thick necks and can take alot of punishment.
     
  6. whipyourasstyle

    whipyourasstyle Exitus acta probat

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    It is amazing how many people release chokes and later the opponent says "I was just about to tap thank god you let go"

    when in doubt count to five before you let go.
     
  7. gracie_barra**

    gracie_barra** Purple Belt

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    squeeze til the guy releases all his bowels.
     
  8. TsukinoKage

    TsukinoKage Purple Belt

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    Obviously a case by case bias. We can't tell you specifically "If X and Y and Z conditions are met, then hold for 5.92 seconds then release".
     
  9. Prokofievian

    Prokofievian Silver Belt

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    I had a good guillotine once, it was tight as hell and I was cranking it. But in the back of my mine I heard Joe Rogan saying 'wow, he's really wasting a lot of energy here' and let go. He said he was about to tap.

    Oh well, the lessons you learn.
     
  10. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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    lol @ the joe rogan voice in your head.

    i always hear him say "he's out of danger now" when they got a guillotine on me and i move to sidecontrol.
     
  11. hayliks

    hayliks Banned Banned

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    Most guys don't know how to apply a guillotine correctly, if you feel like you're using a lot of energy, you probably have your grip and arm placement incorrect.
     
  12. Afrofeet

    Afrofeet Green Belt

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    when you apply guillotine you must stretch him and twist him in the same time. Many people forget twisting motion, and just try to stretch opponent and its not working.
     
  13. spirez

    spirez Purple Belt

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    I've had a few brabo/anaconda chokes recently and thought they weren't working as the guy was really relaxed. I let them go and my opponent tells me he was only a few seconds of tapping!

    If in doubt, squeeze some more.

    Work on isometric strength with weights so that you can condition the arms too.
     
  14. itlnheat

    itlnheat Blue Belt

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    Yeah I won a match in a tourney with a choke I was about to release. I seriously didn't think it was that tight and thought the guy just gave up, But when we stood up his face was all purple looking. Usually you can feel it, if your expending way too much strength to hold and it still doesn't feel tight enough you just know. Your judgment will improve with mat time and it really is a case by case basis.
     
  15. Meegle818

    Meegle818 Blue Belt

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    My teacher tells us to hold it for like 10-15 seconds. Sometimes its a weak choke, but its still a choke and it takes a little longer to take effect. If your holding something for 30-45 seconds your kidding yourself.
     
  16. James.Jitsu**

    James.Jitsu** Banned Banned

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    Please refer to Jason MacDonald's triangle choke on Ed Herman he had that bitch on for a whiel before he got the tap.

    If I get soemone in I trianlge I fell I can kinda manuver it into a tight choke even if at first its sloppy.
     
  17. Mikey Triangles

    Mikey Triangles Bending Joints the Wrong Way Since 1985

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    you should have also realized that while the rogan in your head may have said your name he probably meant the guy you were fighting, and you should have continued with the choke.
     
  18. Timbaland

    Timbaland Black Belt

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    It depends on how much gas I'm using. Triangles will wear down my legs but guillotines don't really affect me. Landing a proper guillotine is all about hip movement and position.
     
  19. sheek

    sheek White Belt

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    I disagree with the advice here, typically if a move isn't working you should transition to something better or adjust it instead of wasting your energy. This applies the most for arm chokes like anacondas and guillotines. Burning out your arms with a misplaced choke is a dumb thing to do.
     
  20. Prokofievian

    Prokofievian Silver Belt

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    You know, that is entirely possible, and in fact probably likely.
     

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