1. The official Sherdog Store is back! Check it out! » Discuss it here! »

Amino Acid Profile

Discussion in 'Dieting / Supplement Discussion' started by earthman32, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. DevilEyes Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    At the top of the food chain - TX
    First, I never mentioned protein-synthesis so half of the studies you provided have no bearing on this discussion. Second, we are not discussing the effects of glutamine supplementation or how increased levels of glutamine affect weightlifters. We are discussing exactly what role glutamine itself plays in your body.
     
  2. Vedic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    You didn't read any of mine did you? Wow, yet again. As I said it helps ulcers, great, that is applicable how? It helps burn victims with recovery, ummmm again, how is that applicable?

    If you bothered to read any of what I posted, then you would see the studies that measures its effects DIRECTLY related to athletic performance and recovery. IT DOESN'T WORK. It's in the red. The first study shows how it is destroyed in the gut, and better to be taken in a food source where it is protein bonded. NOT IN SUPPLEMENTAL POWDER FORM.


    Yes post away, show me where it helps ATHLETES or RECOVERY OF ATHLETES. That simple.

    I mean some of you consider me harsh, you come with he says she says information. Then for the most part can't even decifer it yourselves, yet want to tell me I am wrong. Make sense to you?
     
  3. DevilEyes Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    At the top of the food chain - TX

    If we were in person I would be speaking much more slowly this time around, as it is I will just retype it yet again. We are NOT discussing the supplementation of glutamine. We ARE discussion what role, exactly, that the amino acid glutamine plays in the human body.
     
  4. Vedic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0

    I told you, it helps ulcers, it helps burn victims when in a IV, and that about sums it up:icon_lol:
     
  5. Vedic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Christ:icon_chee let me speak more slowly. We are discussing the supplement. He isn't looking for it in a food source. Straight aminos that day is what he is after.:icon_lol: You still with me Forrest.

    It does what I said it does, and the studies showed. That's it.
     
  6. DevilEyes Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    At the top of the food chain - TX

    The supplement is the amino acid.


    You didn't say "increased levels of glutamine via supplementation has no added effect for weightlifters". You posted that the amino acid glutamine DOES NOT boost immune system or improve recovery. That is incorrect, by definition that is exactly what it does. I realize that there doesn't seem to be much difference in those statements, but there is a difference and it could end up confusing some people. As I said before, in some cases such as marathon runners and athletes that train excessively, naturally occurring glutamine levels can become depleted (at which point glutamine supplementation has been shown to be useful).
     
  7. Vedic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    And the differance is is how it is administered as well. IV? Who here is going to put the glutamine in a drip? It does not increase athletic recovery. HOW DO YOU NOT GET THAT? Still waiting for you to post a study showing me how it helps in what he needs. Ummmmmm, yo, it doesn't.

    He isn't in a marathon, and in those cases, please by all means post the studies to back it.
     
  8. DevilEyes Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    At the top of the food chain - TX
    Sure,



    The emerging role of glutamine as an indicator of exercise stress and overtraining.
    Rowbottom DG, Keast D, Morton AR.

    Department of Microbiology, University of Western Australia, Perth.

    Glutamine is an amino acid essential for many important homeostatic functions and for the optimal functioning of a number of tissues in the body, particularly the immune system and the gut. However, during various catabolic states, such as infection, surgery, trauma and acidosis, glutamine homeostasis is placed under stress, and glutamine reserves, particularly in the skeletal muscle, are depleted. With regard to glutamine ****bolism, exercise stress may be viewed in a similar light to other catabolic stresses. Plasma glutamine responses to both prolonged and high intensity exercise are characterised by increased levels during exercise followed by significant decreases during the post-exercise recovery period, with several hours of recovery required for restoration of pre-exercise levels, depending on the intensity and duration of exercise. If recovery between exercise bouts is inadequate, the acute effects of exercise on plasma glutamine level may be cumulative, since overload training has been shown to result in low plasma glutamine levels requiring prolonged recovery. Athletes suffering from the overtraining syndrome (OTS) appear to maintain low plasma glutamine levels for months or years. All these observations have important implications for organ functions in these athletes, particularly with regard to the gut and the cells of the immune system, which may be adversely affected. In conclusion, if methodological issues are carefully considered, plasma glutamine level may be useful as an indicator of an overtrained state.




    Glutamine, exercise and immune function. Links and mechanisms.
    Walsh NP, Blannin AK, Robson PJ, Gleeson M.

    Sport Health and Leisure Department, Trinity and All Saints University College, Leeds, England.

    Glutamine is the most abundant free amino acid in human muscle and plasma and is utilised at high rates by rapidly dividing cells, including leucocytes, to provide energy and optimal conditions for nucleotide biosynthesis. As such, it is considered to be essential for proper immune function. During various catabolic states including surgical trauma, infection, starvation and prolonged exercise, glutamine homeostasis is placed under stress. Falls in the plasma glutamine level (normal range 500 to 750 mumol/L after an overnight fast) have been reported following endurance events and prolonged exercise. These levels remain unchanged or temporarily elevated after short term, high intensity exercise. Plasma glutamine has also been reported to fall in patients with untreated diabetes mellitus, in diet-induced ****bolic acidosis and in the recovery period following high intensity intermittent exercise. Common factors among all these stress states are rises in the plasma concentrations of cortisol and glucagon and an increased tissue requirement for glutamine for gluconeogenesis. It is suggested that increased gluconeogenesis and associated increases in hepatic, gut and renal glutamine uptake account for the depletion of plasma glutamine in catabolic stress states, including prolonged exercise. The short term effects of exercise on the plasma glutamine level may be cumulative, since heavy training has been shown to result in low plasma glutamine levels (< 500 mumol/L) requiring long periods of recovery. Furthermore, athletes experiencing discomfort from the overtraining syndrome exhibit lower resting levels of plasma glutamine than active healthy controls. Therefore, physical activity directly affects the availability of glutamine to the leucocytes and thus may influence immune function. The utility of plasma glutamine level as a marker of overtraining has recently been highlighted, but a consensus has not yet been reached concerning the best method of determining the level. Since injury, infection, nutritional status and acute exercise can all influence plasma glutamine level, these factors must be controlled and/or taken into consideration if plasma glutamine is to prove a useful marker of impending overtraining.



    Depression of plasma glutamine concentration after exercise stress and its influence on the immune system.
    Keast D, Arstein D, Harper W, Fry RW, Morton AR.

    Department of Microbiology, University of Western Australia, Perth.

    OBJECTIVE: To determine whether plasma glutamine levels can be used as an indicator of exercise-induced stress, and to consider the possible effects of low plasma glutamine concentrations on the immune system. METHODS: We used two exercise regimens: in Trial 1 seven male subjects were randomly stressed on a treadmill at 0, 30%, 60%, 90% and 120% of their maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max); in Trial 2 five highly trained male subjects underwent intensive interval training sessions twice daily for ten days, followed by a six-day recovery period. RESULTS: Plasma glutamine concentrations decreased significantly from an average of 1244 +/- 121 mumol/L to 702 +/- 101 mumol/L after acute exercise at 90% VO2max (P < 0.05) and to 560 +/- 79 mumol/L at 120% VO2max (P < 0.001). Four of the five subjects showed reduced plasma glutamine concentrations by Day 6 of the overload training trial, with all subjects displaying significantly lower glutamine levels by Day 11. However, glutamine levels showed a variable rate of recovery over the six-day recovery period, with two subjects' levels remaining low by Day 16. CONCLUSIONS: Reduced plasma glutamine concentrations may provide a good indication of severe exercise stress.



    Plasma glutamine responses to high-intensity exercise before and after endurance training.
    Kargotich S, Goodman C, Dawson B, Morton AR, Keast D, Joske DJ.

    School of Microbiology, University of Western Australia, Nedlands, Western Australia.

    Glutamine responses to strenuous interval exercise were examined before and after 6 weeks of endurance training. Glutamine measures were obtained before and after the interval exercise sessions and training in untrained males assigned to training (T; n = 10) or control (C; n = 10) groups. Before training, C and T group glutamine progressively decreased (p < 0.05) by 18% and 16%, respectively, by 150-min postinterval exercise. Over the training period C group glutamine did not change, while T group values increased (p < 0.05) by 14%. After training, glutamine again decreased (p < 0.05) by similar percentages (C = 16% and T = 15%) by 150-min postinterval exercise, but the T group recorded higher (p < 0.05) resting and postexercise glutamine concentrations than the C group. Training induced increases in glutamine may prevent the decline in glutamine levels following strenuous exercise falling below a threshold where immune function might be acutely compromised.






    I also have a few journals here at home that are very specific to what I am saying. I'll try to find copies online to post as specific references...
     
  9. DevilEyes Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    At the top of the food chain - TX
    What do you know, they actually do have copies of some of these online:




    The effects of oral glutamine supplementation on athletes after prolonged, exhaustive exercise.
    Castell LM, Newsholme EA.

    University Department of Biochemistry, Oxford, United Kingdom.

    Athletes undergoing intense, prolonged training or participating in endurance races suffer an increased risk of infection due to apparent immunosuppression. Glutamine is an important fuel for some cells of the immune system and may have specific immunostimulatory effects. The plasma glutamine concentration is lower after prolonged, exhaustive exercise: this may contribute to impairment of the immune system at a time when the athlete may be exposed to opportunistic infections. The effects of feeding glutamine was investigated both at rest in sedentary controls and after exhaustive exercise in middle-distance, marathon and ultra-marathon runners, and elite rowers, in training and competition. Questionnaires established the incidence of infection for 7 d after exercise: infection levels were highest in marathon and ultra-marathon runners, and in elite male rowers after intensive training. Plasma glutamine levels were decreased by approximately 20% 1 h after marathon running. A marked increase in numbers of white blood cells occurred immediately after exhaustive exercise, followed by a decrease in the numbers of lymphocytes. The provision of oral glutamine after exercise appeared to have a beneficial effect on the level of subsequent infections. In addition, the ratio of T-helper/T-suppressor cells appeared to be increased in samples from those who received glutamine, compared with placebo.





    Does glutamine have a role in reducing infections in athletes?
    Castell LM, Poortmans JR, Newsholme EA.

    University Department of Biochemistry, Oxford, UK.

    There is an increased risk of infections in athletes undertaking prolonged, strenuous exercise. There is also some evidence that cells of the immune system are less able to mount a defence against infections after such exercise. The level of plasma glutamine, an important fuel for cells of the immune system, is decreased in athletes after endurance exercise; this may be partly responsible for the apparent immunosuppression which occurs in these individuals. We monitored levels of infection in more than 200 runners and towers. The levels of infection were lowest in middle-distance runners, and highest in runners after a full or ultramarathon and in elite rowers after intensive training. In the present study, athletes participating in different types of exercise consumed two drinks, containing either glutamine (Group G) or placebo (Group P) immediately after and 2 h after exercise. They subsequently completed questionnaires (n = 151) about the incidence of infections during the 7 days following the exercise. The percentage of athletes reporting no infections was considerably higher in Group G (81%, n = 72) than in Group P (49%, n = 79, p < 0.001).
     
  10. Vedic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  11. Vedic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Depression of plasma glutamine concentration after exercise stress and its influence on the immune system.
    Keast D, Arstein D, Harper W, Fry RW, Morton AR.

    Department of Microbiology, University of Western Australia, Perth.

    OBJECTIVE: To determine whether plasma glutamine levels can be used as an indicator of exercise-induced stress, and to consider the possible effects of low plasma glutamine concentrations on the immune system. METHODS: We used two exercise regimens: in Trial 1 seven male subjects were randomly stressed on a treadmill at 0, 30%, 60%, 90% and 120% of their maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max); in Trial 2 five highly trained male subjects underwent intensive interval training sessions twice daily for ten days, followed by a six-day recovery period. RESULTS: Plasma glutamine concentrations decreased significantly from an average of 1244 +/- 121 mumol/L to 702 +/- 101 mumol/L after acute exercise at 90% VO2max (P < 0.05) and to 560 +/- 79 mumol/L at 120% VO2max (P < 0.001). Four of the five subjects showed reduced plasma glutamine concentrations by Day 6 of the overload training trial, with all subjects displaying significantly lower glutamine levels by Day 11. However, glutamine levels showed a variable rate of recovery over the six-day recovery period, with two subjects' levels remaining low by Day 16. CONCLUSIONS: Reduced plasma glutamine concentrations may provide a good indication of severe exercise stress.




    Wow again no numers for time of trial, amount consumed the way it was taken, another boring study:icon_lol:



    Plasma glutamine responses to high-intensity exercise before and after endurance training.
    Kargotich S, Goodman C, Dawson B, Morton AR, Keast D, Joske DJ.

    School of Microbiology, University of Western Australia, Nedlands, Western Australia.

    Glutamine responses to strenuous interval exercise were examined before and after 6 weeks of endurance training. Glutamine measures were obtained before and after the interval exercise sessions and training in untrained males assigned to training (T; n = 10) or control (C; n = 10) groups. Before training, C and T group glutamine progressively decreased (p < 0.05) by 18% and 16%, respectively, by 150-min postinterval exercise. Over the training period C group glutamine did not change, while T group values increased (p < 0.05) by 14%. After training, glutamine again decreased (p < 0.05) by similar percentages (C = 16% and T = 15%) by 150-min postinterval exercise, but the T group recorded higher (p < 0.05) resting and postexercise glutamine concentrations than the C group. Training induced increases in glutamine may prevent the decline in glutamine levels following strenuous exercise falling below a threshold where immune function might be acutely compromised.

    Again, so what




    I also have a few journals here at home that are very specific to what I am saying. I'll try to find copies online to post as specific references...[/QUOTE]

    none of these even have basic test guidelines or parameters. Take this discussion seriously or bow out man
     
  12. Vedic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    hahahaha holy shit my gut hurts from laughing. Can i please have one on your behalf that has amount ingested, how it was taken, and for how long following what type of routine:icon_lol: PLEASE
     
  13. stylesbjj** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    0
    Vedic, I respect your intelligence, but you come off as a bit of a douche, esp in the beginning of this thread.
     
  14. DevilEyes Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    At the top of the food chain - TX
    I give up. No matter what is provided, you are going to find some way to try to prove that you are right and they are morons. You're right, I have no idea why I would post something from some fly-by-night "trade school for dumb asses" like Oxford. What was I thinking? Sorry that I ever doubted your greatness and unequaled depth of knowledge...
     
  15. Vedic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's oxfor "let me twirl my finger around" either way. Any RELEVANT medical school or Nutritional research program posts doseages, length of time taken, length o study. Number of participants etc.

    Sorry dude, but ask any vet here, and without that, your studies don't mean jack.
     
  16. Vedic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ya and i answered how he wanted to be three posts later. Would you sit and argue scientific facts with pasted studies that have no parameters? I think not.
     
  17. DevilEyes Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    At the top of the food chain - TX
    What I posted is what is referred to as an "abstract". Feel free to look it up. But you want every detail so you can pretend to discredit it right? Ok, here you go, full text of the study:


    Elsevier


    It will cost you $31.50 for 24hr access.
     
  18. Vedic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not paying to prove my point that has already been proven. Find some relevant ones with real numbers. That simple
     
  19. DevilEyes Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2007
    Messages:
    877
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    At the top of the food chain - TX
    Doesn't matter, like I said, I'm done. I learned a long time ago not to waste time arguing with people that already know everything. We'll just agree to disagree.
     
  20. Vedic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have been proven wrong countless times, that's how you learn.

    Do a search on glutamine with Mike Martial or Monger, see what you get.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.