Amino Acid Profile

[earthman32]

Okay, so I've scoped the search function, I've read the stickies and scoured the D&S thinking this had surely come up before, but there is no existing thread (well, there was one but had one response and it was a broken link).

Inspired by David Barr's 3 core supplements and some associated articles of his, I wanted to get more info on Amino Acids and appropriate dosage.

What I want to do: I'm looking for a way to use an all Amino diet the day of weigh-in to help avoid catabolism while not taking on heavy foods (such as whole proteins) or liquids.

 

[Vedic]

This has to be a joke

 

[stllmn8j]

Okay, so I've scoped the search function, I've read the stickies and scoured the D&S thinking this had surely come up before, but there is no existing thread (well, there was one but had one response and it was a broken link).

Inspired by David Barr's 3 core supplements and some associated articles of his, I wanted to get more info on Amino Acids and appropriate dosage.

What I want to do: I'm looking for a way to use an all Amino diet the day of weigh-in to help avoid catabolism while not taking on heavy foods (such as whole proteins) or liquids.

Just take 3 giant Amino pills and you're good

 

[XTrainer]

One of my friends went on an all-cookie diet once. No kidding.

 

[earthman32]

This has to be a joke

No its not. Enlighten me, what is so funny about this post? Out of all the dumbass, "hey I'm new at this guys, but...," and "who would win: GSP or a bear?" posts that warrant 8-9 pages of responses, you find this one to be laughable.

Do me a favor, save your opinions for yourself. You don't like my topic of discussion. Save yourself the typing and me my patience and find another topic.

 

[Vedic]

I am saying you are not understanding human nutrition or physiological responses if you are even asking the question.

 

[earthman32]

Really? A similar question was asked in "Muscle & Body" and the response went something to the effect of:
Glutamine-helps to increase protein synthesis, boost immuse system & improve recover (5-15g daily)
Arginine-improves recovery, immunity & GH (5-15g daily)
Taurine-assists w/obsorption of other aminos (1-2g w/carb&prot after workout)
Carnatine-aids in fat utilization( 1-3g daily)
Lysine-building block for all protein (1,200 mg daily).
Now, was that so hard? Was that so dumb?

 

[Vedic]

Great, glutamine does none of that.
Arginine, sure its a good amino, but GH release doesn't work with arginine alone.
Taurine, one of my favorite aminos
Carnitine, yes I use ALC a lot
Lysine, eh neither here nor there.

So ya, you want all of those on a weigh in day? Either way you have to use water to take those, so what is your actual point to doing it? And if no food is ingested to cover your bases, you would need a TON more than what you have posted.

 

[earthman32]

This isn't the formula for what I want. If it was, there would be no point in posting the question. But this is the kind of information I'm looking for.
Yes, I will have to take aminos with water, but I'm fine with that. I'm not asking anyone to figure this out for me. I'm just looking for info (such as that provided) on Aminos, their function, and appropriate dosage. And thank you, Vedic, for keeping this discussion alive.

 

[Vedic]

OK, but I am lost man. Its the day of weigh ins, aren't you cutting water weight to make weight? Is so then why would you ingest something that requires water?

 

[earthman32]

Yeah, you can take down 8 oz of water with your aminos and only take on 1/2 lb. You would piss that out before weigh in, let alone any weight cutting tactics. My concern is burning calories and requiring more nutrition than is in your system. You can get simple carbs with relatively little weight by sucking down some honey, but how do you get protein? In the same vein of Biotest's Surge, you could get a fast acting whey (now we're talking more water and weight plus expense) or you can get the basic aminos that can hold off some of the wasting while making your cut.

 

[DevilEyes]

Great, glutamine does none of that.

While I agree with you that it is probably not completely necessary for him to be taking glutamine, I have to disagree with your conclusion that glutamine doesn't (by nature) boost immune or improve recovery. Glutamine plays a key role in your immune system and does, in fact, aid in recovery and healing.

 

[Vedic]

Oh really, care to have a study or two back that up? its great in a IV for chemo patients or burn victims, it also helps ulcers. But ummmm ya lets discuss this

 

[Vedic]

Let the games begin:icon_lol:



Free and protein-bound glutamine have identical splanchnic extraction in healthy human volunteers.

Boza JJ, Dangin M, Moennoz D, Montigon F, Vuichoud J, Jarret A, Pouteau E, Gremaud G, Oguey-Araymon S, Courtois D, Woupeyi A, Finot PA, Ballevre O.

Nestle Research Center, Vers-Chez-Les-Blanc, 1000 Lausanne 26, Switzerland.

The objectives of the present study were to determine the splanchnic extraction of glutamine after ingestion of glutamine-rich protein ((15)N-labeled oat proteins) and to compare it with that of free glutamine and to determine de novo glutamine synthesis before and after glutamine consumption. Eight healthy adults were infused intravenously in the postabsorptive state with L-[1-(13)C]glutamine (3 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1)) and L-[1-(13)C]lysine (1.5 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1)) for 8 h. Four hours after the beginning of the infusion, subjects consumed (every 20 min) a liquid formula providing either 2.5 g of protein from (15)N-labeled oat proteins or a mixture of free amino acids that mimicked the oat-amino acid profile and contained L-[2,5-(15)N(2)]glutamine and L-[2-(15)N]lysine. Splanchnic extraction of glutamine reached 62.5 +/- 5.0% and 66.7 +/- 3.9% after administration of (15)N-labeled oat proteins and the mixture of free amino acids, respectively. Lysine splanchnic extraction was also not different (40.9 +/- 11.9% and 34.9 +/- 10.6% for (15)N-labeled oat proteins and free amino acids, respectively). The main conclusion of the present study is that glutamine is equally bioavailable when given enterally as a free amino acid and when protein bound. Therefore, and taking into consideration the drawbacks of free glutamine supplementation of ready-to-use formulas for enteral nutrition, protein sources naturally rich in this amino acid are the best option for providing stable glutamine.



Oxidation of glutamine by the splanchnic bed in humans.

Haisch M, Fukagawa NK, Matthews DE.

Departments of Medicine and Chemistry, University of Vermont, Burlington, Vermont 05405, USA.

[1,2-(13)C(2)]glutamine and [ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine were infused for 7 h into five postabsorptive healthy subjects on two occasions. On one occasion, the tracers were infused intravenously for 3.5 h and then by a nasogastric tube for 3.5 h. The order of infusion was reversed on the other occasion. From the plasma tracer enrichment measurements at plateau during the intravenous and nasogastric infusion periods, we determined that 27 +/- 2% of the enterally delivered phenylalanine and 64 +/- 2% of the glutamine were removed on the first pass by the splanchnic bed. Glutamine flux was 303 +/- 8 micromol. kg(-1). h(-1). Of the enterally delivered [(13)C]glutamine tracer, 73 +/- 2% was recovered as exhaled CO(2) compared with 58 +/- 1% of the intravenously infused tracer. The fraction of the enterally delivered tracer that was oxidized specifically on the first pass by the splanchnic bed was 53 +/- 2%, comprising 83% of the total tracer extracted. From the appearance of (13)C in plasma glucose, we estimated that 7 and 10% of the intravenously and nasogastrically infused glutamine tracers, respectively, were converted to glucose. The results for glutamine flux and first-pass extraction were similar to our previously reported values when a [2-(15)N]glutamine tracer [Matthews DE, Morano MA, and Campbell RG, Am J Physiol Endocrinol ****b 264: E848-E854, 1993] was used. The results of [(13)C]glutamine tracer disposal demonstrate that the major fate of enteral glutamine extraction is for oxidation and that only a minor portion is used for gluconeogenesis.




Now if it is destroyed in the gut, and it doesn't reach where its is supposed to, what good does it do?

 

[Vedic]

Hmmmmm, no effect, you don't say



Effect of glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults.

Candow DG, Chilibeck PD, Burke DG, Davison KS, Smith-Palmer T.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, Saskatoon, Canada.

The purpose of this study was to assess the effect of oral glutamine supplementation combined with resistance training in young adults. A group of 31 subjects, aged 18-24 years, were randomly allocated to groups (double blind) to receive either glutamine (0.9 g x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 17) or a placebo (0.9 g maltodextrin x kg lean tissue mass(-1) x day(-1); n = 14 during 6 weeks of total body resistance training. Exercises were performed for four to five sets of 6-12 repetitions at intensities ranging from 60% to 90% 1 repetition maximum (1 RM). Before and after training, measurements were taken of 1 RM squat and bench press strength, peak knee extension torque (using an isokinetic dynamometer), lean tissue mass (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry) and muscle protein degradation (urinary 3-methylhistidine by high performance liquid chromatography). Repeated measures ANOVA showed that strength, torque, lean tissue mass and 3-methylhistidine increased with training (P < 0.05), with no significant difference between groups. Both groups increased their 1 RM squat by approximately 30% and 1 RM bench press by approximately 14%. The glutamine group showed increases of 6% for knee extension torque, 2% for lean tissue mass and 41% for urinary levels of 3-methylhistidine. The placebo group increased knee extension torque by 5%, lean tissue mass by 1.7% and 3-methylhistidine by 56%. We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults.

 

[Vedic]

It doesn't work for weightlifters all to well.


J Strength Cond Res 2002 Feb;16(1):157-60
The effects of high-dose glutamine ingestion on weightlifting performance

Antonio J, Sanders MS, Kalman D, Woodgate D, Street C.

Sports Science Laboratory, University of Delaware, Newark, Delaware 19716, USA.

The purpose of this study was to determine if high-dose glutamine ingestion affected weightlifting performance. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, crossover study, 6 resistance-trained men (mean +/- SE: age, 21.5 +/- 0.3 years; weight, 76.5 +/- 2.8 kg(-1)) performed weightlifting exercises after the ingestion of glutamine or glycine (0.3 g x kg(-1)) mixed with calorie-free fruit juice or placebo (calorie-free fruit juice only). Each subject underwent each of the 3 treatments in a randomized order. One hour after ingestion, subjects performed 4 total sets of exercise to momentary muscular failure (2 sets of leg presses at 200% of body weight, 2 sets of bench presses at 100% of body weight). There were no differences in the average number of maximal repetitions performed in the leg press or bench press exercises among the 3 groups. These data indicate that the short-term ingestion of glutamine does not enhance weightlifting performance in resistance-trained men.

 

[Vedic]

Again no difference in recovery.


Int J Sports Med 2000 Jan;21(1):25-30 Related Articles, Links


The effect of free glutamine and peptide ingestion on the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis in man.

van Hall G, Saris WH, van de Schoor PA, Wagenmakers AJ.

Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, The Netherlands. [email protected]

The present study investigated previous claims that ingestion of glutamine and of protein-carbohydrate mixtures may increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis following intense exercise. Eight trained subjects were studied during 3 h of recovery while consuming one of four drinks in random order. Drinks were ingested in three 500 ml boluses, immediately after exercise and then after 1 and 2 h of recovery. Each bolus of the control drink contained 0.8 g x kg(-1) body weight of glucose. The other drinks contained the same amount of glucose and 0.3 g x kg(-1) body weight of 1) glutamine, 2) a wheat hydrolysate (26% glutamine) and 3) a whey hydrolysate (6.6% glutamine). Plasma glutamine, decreased by approximately 20% during recovery with ingestion of the control drink, no changes with ingestion of the protein hydrolysates drinks, and a 2-fold increase with ingestion of the free glutamine drinks. The rate of glycogen resynthesis was not significantly different in the four tests: 28 +/- 5, 26 +/- 6, 33 +/- 4, and 34 +/- 3 mmol glucosyl units x kg(-1) dry weight muscle x h(-1) for the control, glutamine, wheat- and whey hydrolysate ingestion, respectively. It is concluded that ingestion of a glutamine/carbohydrate mixture does not increase the rate of glycogen resynthesis in muscle. Glycogen resynthesis rates were higher, although not statistically significant, after ingestion of the drink containing the wheat (21 +/- 8%) and whey protein hydrolysate (20 +/- 6%) compared to ingestion of the control and free glutamine drinks, implying that further research is needed on the potential protein effect.

 

[Vedic]

Now here is a very key one to my point.


****bolism 2000 Dec;49(12):1555-60 Related Articles, Links


Intravenous glutamine does not stimulate mixed muscle protein synthesis in healthy young men and women.

Zachwieja JJ, Witt TL, Yarasheski KE.

Exercise and Nutrition Program, Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Baton Rouge, LA, USA.

We investigated the effects of a glutamine-supplemented amino acid mixture on vastus lateralis muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women. Three men and 3 women (27.8 +/- 2.0 yr, 22.2 +/- 1.0 body mass index [BMI], 56.1 +/- 4.5 kg lean body mass [LBM]) received a 14-hour primed, constant intravenous infusion of L[1-13C]leucine to evaluate the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis. In addition to tracer administration, a clinically relevant amino acid mixture supplemented with either glutamine or glycine in amounts isonitrogenous to glutamine, was infused. Amino acid mixtures were infused on separate occasions in random order at a rate of 0.04 g/kg/h (glutamine at approximately 0.01 g/kg/h) with at least 2 weeks between treatment. For 2 days before and on the day of an infusion, dietary intake was controlled so that each subject received 1.5 g protein/kg/d. Compared with our previous report in the postabsorptive state, amino acid infusion increased the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis by 48% (P < .05); however, the addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture did not further elevate muscle protein synthesis rate (ie, 0.071% +/- 0.008%/h for amino acids + glutamine v 0.060% +/- 0.008%/h for amino acids + glycine; P = .316). Plasma glutamine concentrations were higher (P < .05) during the glutamine-supplemented infusion, but free intramuscular glutamine levels were not increased (P = .363). Both plasma and free intramuscular glycine levels were increased when extra glycine was included in the infused amino acid mixture (both P < .0001). We conclude that intravenous infusion of amino acids increases the fractional rate of mixed muscle protein synthesis, but addition of glutamine to the amino acid mixture does not further stimulate muscle protein synthesis rate in healthy young men and women.

 

[Vedic]

As I said it works well for burn victims.



J Appl Physiol 2002 Sep;93(3):813-22 Related Articles, Links


Exercise-induced immunodepression- plasma glutamine is not the link.

Hiscock N, Pedersen BK.

Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre and Department of Infectious Diseases, Rigshospitalet, University of Copenhagen, DK-2100 Copenhagen, Denmark.

The amino acid glutamine is known to be important for the function of some immune cells in vitro. It has been proposed that the decrease in plasma glutamine concentration in relation to catabolic conditions, including prolonged, exhaustive exercise, results in a lack of glutamine for these cells and may be responsible for the transient immunodepression commonly observed after acute, exhaustive exercise. It has been unclear, however, whether the magnitude of the observed decrease in plasma glutamine concentration would be great enough to compromise the function of immune cells. In fact, intracellular glutamine concentration may not be compromised when plasma levels are decreased postexercise. In addition, a number of recent intervention studies with glutamine feeding demonstrate that, although the plasma concentration of glutamine is kept constant during and after acute, strenuous exercise, glutamine supplementation does not abolish the postexercise decrease in in vitro cellular immunity, including low lymphocyte number, impaired lymphocyte proliferation, impaired natural killer and lymphokine-activated killer cell activity, as well as low production rate and concentration of salivary IgA. It is concluded that, although the glutamine hypothesis may explain immunodepression related to other stressful conditions such as trauma and burn, plasma glutamine concentration is not likely to play a mechanistic role in exercise-induced immunodepression.

 

[DevilEyes]

Oh really, care to have a study or two back that up? its great in a IV for chemo patients or burn victims, it also helps ulcers. But ummmm ya lets discuss this

Sure, we can start with the University of Maryland Medical Center. I would post a link to backup my data but I know how much you hate that. Several types of important immune cells rely on glutamine for energy -- without it, the immune system would be impaired. Glutamine also appears to be necessary for normal brain function and digestion. Adequate amounts of glutamine are generally obtained through diet alone because the body is also able to make glutamine on its own. Certain medical conditions, including injuries, surgery, infections, and prolonged stress, can deplete glutamine levels, however. In these cases, glutamine supplementation may be helpful. Athletes who train excessively may deplete their glutamine stores. This is because they are overusing their skeletal muscles, where much of the glutamine in the body is stored. Athletes who overstress their muscles (without adequate time for recovery between workouts) may be at increased risk for infection and often recover slowly from injuries. This is also true for people who participate in prolonged exercise, such as ultra-marathon runners. They conclude that for select groups of athletes, glutamine supplementation may be useful. If you really feel it necessary, I could list supporting research, studies, reference materials, and quite a bit more.

The only question I would pose toward your allegations is that if glutamine plays no part in boosting the immune system or aid in healing and recovery, then what exactly is it doing that is helping heal said ulcers and burns and treat cancer?


Again, I'm not saying that everyone needs to be taking extra glutamine, for most it is completely unnecessary. I am simply pointing out what functions glutamine, by nature, performs.