Yep. I was homophobic in my younger days, fortunately I came to realize how dumb that is. There's still quite a stigma around it with men and upon reflection I've known several dudes who are probably bi.
That aspect definitely seems to get a lot of the focus and it's easy for people to stereotype though I don't think it's a good reason to be an asshole to someone either way.
It's not a reason although I make a distinction between effeminate and flamboyant. The former is a set of largely innate characteristics in a sizeable portion of the G/B cis male population and I have nothing against them for it. They're often very sweet, innocent and talented people. You can't be into the visual arts and simultaneously throw hate at the 'fems', man. <45>
It's just that the silent majority (70%+) is actually kind of striving for and attracted to traditional handsome hard bodies, you know? That isn't exactly represented in popular culture. 'Masc' simply means a conventionally masculine appearance, demeanor, mannerisms, etc. That's all, it isn't meant to be a statement rooted with insecurities or a put-down towards anyone else.
It's not a reason although I make a distinction between effeminate and flamboyant. The former is a set of largely innate characteristics in a sizeable portion of the G/B cis male population and I have nothing against them for it. They're often very sweet, innocent and talented people. You can't be into the visual arts and simultaneously throw hate at the 'fems', man. <45>
It's just that the silent majority (70%+) is actually kind of striving for and attracted to traditional handsome hard bodies, you know? That isn't exactly represented in popular culture. 'Masc' simply means a conventionally masculine appearance, demeanor, mannerisms, etc. That's all, it isn't meant to be a statement rooted with insecurities or a put-down towards anyone else.
Haha I think I gotcha, and come to think of it I'm guilty of conflating flamboyant and effeminate even though I've known/know effeminate dudes who aren't flamboyant.
It's unfortunate that pop culture seems to not represent the whole picture, I wonder why. I imagine that tide will shift if it's not already (I don't keep up with these things so I'm a bit ignorant) but in the meantime it'd help if people weren't painted with such a broad brush.
I loved Dave Chappelle's new standup special but it's incredibly cringey to see his jokes used to death out of context by douchebags who are just happy to feel validated.
Haha I think I gotcha, and come to think of it I'm guilty of conflating flamboyant and effeminate even though I've known/know effeminate dudes who aren't flamboyant.
It's unfortunate that pop culture seems to not represent the whole picture, I wonder why. I imagine that tide will shift if it's not already (I don't keep up with these things so I'm a bit ignorant) but in the meantime it'd help if people weren't painted with such a broad brush.
No overt public representation would be preferable tbh, it's better as an underground subculture. I'll eschew more nefarious theories and say most likely because it wouldn't align in neat conjunction with the feminist movement(s) and we're otherwise far too similar to straight dudes.
There's definitely a greater emphasis on physical fitness, grooming and hygienic standards though so maybe a little 'prettier'. Hell, gheys started fitness culture, bodybuilding and physique photography; hetero society kind of took all of that to be mainstreamed for the masses.
I loved Dave Chappelle's new standup special but it's incredibly cringey to see his jokes used to death out of context by douchebags who are just happy to feel validated.
^ That's muh culture, as direct as it can be laid out.
No overt public representation would be preferable tbh, it's better as an underground subculture. I'll eschew more nefarious theories and say most likely because it wouldn't align in neat conjunction with the feminist movement(s) and we're otherwise far too similar to straight dudes.
There's definitely a greater emphasis on physical fitness, grooming and hygienic standards though so maybe a little 'prettier'. Hell, gheys started fitness culture, bodybuilding and physique photography; hetero society kind of took all of that to be mainstreamed for the masses.
Interesting read and discussion, thanks for the links! That's a trip that hetero society culture-vultured fitness. I think I may have seen those posts before (or maybe others) but didn't get around to reading through them.
As an aside, that's badass that Jim Morris was vegan.
Interesting read and discussion, thanks for the links! That's a trip that hetero society culture-vultured fitness. I think I may have seen those posts before (or maybe others) but didn't get around to reading through them.
As an aside, that's badass that Jim Morris was vegan.
Dudes were innovative as fuck in the 1950s with the old school extended social networking, it was already an incredibly interactive nationwide community. The producers/consumers, artists/athletes alike bit is on point too, that's where people of all types form like voltron to become one (core) culture.
Like George Quaintance and Physique Pictorial:
George Quaintance (June 3, 1902 – November 8, 1957) was an American artist, famous for his idealized, strongly homoerotic depictions of men in mid-20th century physique magazines. Often using historical settings to distance the subjects from modern society, his art featured idealized muscular, semi-nude male figures and was an influence on many later homoerotic artists, including Tom of Finland.
His paintings and illustrations are found on the covers and in the pages of most of the seminal physique and bodybuilding magazines of the 1940s and 1950s, such as Physique Pictorial, Body Beautiful and Demi-Gods. Quaintance worked for Lon of New York and for Bob Mizer, of LA's Athletic Model Guild, eventually opening his own studios in Los Angeles and later in Phoenix, Arizona.
There are about 60 oil paintings by Quaintance existing in the hands of private collectors and museums today and the value of these paintings are almost priceless. They pass from collector to collector without ever being offered on public art markets. His sculptures are even harder to find. The photographs that he mass-produced and sold for $1.00 each through his mail-order business now fetch $1500.[1][2][3][4][5][6]
... Or Tom Bianchi and Bob Paris:
And yeah, Jim Morris is one of the greatest icons of all-time. I didn't even mention Chris Dickerson in that slew of posts, who was elite and actually reached the pinnacle to win Mr. Olympia after getting robbed twice (to Arnold in 1980, Franco in 1981; both obviously legendary str8 ATGs though).
I do. Most people revert to somewhat normal when hanging out with friends and acquaintances, but some of my former gay acquaintances actually needed the radical belief that they had something to overcome by any means necessary.. As they had their jobs that exceeded their education and advanced in office politics through feminine behavior.
He basically just refers to LGBTQ as the alphabet people in reference to them being a collection of completely different groups. But now you constantly see people say it just as a blanket insult in here.
I think you would probably really like that bit. You should definitely check it out.
He basically just refers to LGBTQ as the alphabet people in reference to them being a collection of completely different groups. But now you constantly see people say it just as a blanket insult in here.
I think you would probably really like that bit. You should definitely check it out.
Yeah, politics and culture are two different things. As far as the latter, there's virtually no difference between 1969 or 2019 where my subgroup is concerned and (quite humorously) it's only marginally more visible. It's not particularly desirable, isn't necessary and nobody cares. These dudes can spin their wheels all they want with the hate and insults, although I'd hope they get a life. They're not on anybody's mind.
Dudes were innovative as fuck in the 1950s with the old school extended social networking, it was already an incredibly interactive nationwide community. The producers/consumers, artists/athletes alike bit is on point too, that's where people of all types form like voltron to become one (core) culture.
Like George Quaintance and Physique Pictorial:
George Quaintance (June 3, 1902 – November 8, 1957) was an American artist, famous for his idealized, strongly homoerotic depictions of men in mid-20th century physique magazines. Often using historical settings to distance the subjects from modern society, his art featured idealized muscular, semi-nude male figures and was an influence on many later homoerotic artists, including Tom of Finland.
His paintings and illustrations are found on the covers and in the pages of most of the seminal physique and bodybuilding magazines of the 1940s and 1950s, such as Physique Pictorial, Body Beautiful and Demi-Gods. Quaintance worked for Lon of New York and for Bob Mizer, of LA's Athletic Model Guild, eventually opening his own studios in Los Angeles and later in Phoenix, Arizona.
There are about 60 oil paintings by Quaintance existing in the hands of private collectors and museums today and the value of these paintings are almost priceless. They pass from collector to collector without ever being offered on public art markets. His sculptures are even harder to find. The photographs that he mass-produced and sold for $1.00 each through his mail-order business now fetch $1500.[1][2][3][4][5][6]
... Or Tom Bianchi and Bob Paris:
And yeah, Jim Morris is one of the greatest icons of all-time. I didn't even mention Chris Dickerson in that slew of posts, who was elite and actually reached the pinnacle to win Mr. Olympia after getting robbed twice (to Arnold in 1980, Franco in 1981; both obviously legendary str8 ATGs though).
Definitely not, although I think it'd be good for this info to be more well known as I think a lot of gay and bi dudes would benefit and maybe it'd hetero dudes chill the hell out.
I'm reading the article I think one of the more interesting points in all this is what you mentioned, their networking ability in an era devoid of social media which is interesting in and of itself and of course the win wink nudge nudge of it all. Also seems Europeans are more accepting than what I see in the US, which is something I've heard before but never looked into. I never knew that gay men were much less likely to be obese than hetero men or lesbians either. That tracks with my anecdotal experiences but I'd never given it any thought before.
This made me actually laugh out loud btw:
"In the few frontal views that were published, his boxers are usually darkened to conceal the offending bulges."
Edit:
Sandow’s body, which had given him fame and fortune, which had been caressed by hundreds of trembling hands, and which had been photographed in every pose imaginable, was buried without a tombstone—and then ignored. In fact, Blanche vehemently denied fans the opportunity to raise a headstone to their hero. She was retaliating. Blanche had heard the rumors about his liaisons with men long after Sieveking and he broke up.
Definitely not, although I think it'd be good for this info to be more well known as I think a lot of gay and bi dudes would benefit and maybe it'd hetero dudes chill the hell out.
I'm reading the article I think one of the more interesting points in all this is what you mentioned, their networking ability in an era devoid of social media which is interesting in and of itself and of course the win wink nudge nudge of it all. Also seems Europeans are more accepting than what I see in the US, which is something I've heard before but never looked into. I never knew that gay men were much less likely to be obese than hetero men or lesbians either. That tracks with my anecdotal experiences but I'd never given it any thought before.
This made me actually laugh out loud btw:
"In the few frontal views that were published, his boxers are usually darkened to conceal the offending bulges."
Edit:
Sandow’s body, which had given him fame and fortune, which had been caressed by hundreds of trembling hands, and which had been photographed in every pose imaginable, was buried without a tombstone—and then ignored. In fact, Blanche vehemently denied fans the opportunity to raise a headstone to their hero. She was retaliating. Blanche had heard the rumors about his liaisons with men long after Sieveking and he broke up.
Maybe, a lot of them who are closeted remain unaware of the substantial subculture and community that exists for them beneath the surface of a caricatured, flamboyant mainstream they don't relate to. The internalized homophobia, insecurity and shame is so fucking sad and needless. That tends to drop off a cliff once it's discovered they barely even have to deign participation in greater hetero society. <45>
The emphasis on physical fitness standards is a core cultural thing. That's because it's not really about sex (the baseline commonality) so much as it is the celebration of men, expressed through being a handsome hard body and depicting them through an extensive array of high culture visual art mediums. That's what it is. Plus, nobody wants a dude who is unkempt, unhygienic and out of shape.
Maybe, a lot of them who are closeted remain unaware of the substantial subculture and community that exists for them beneath the surface of a caricatured, flamboyant mainstream they don't relate to. The internalized homophobia, insecurity and shame is so fucking sad and needless. That tends to drop off a cliff once it's discovered they barely even have to deign participation in greater hetero society. <45>
The emphasis on physical fitness standards is a core cultural thing. That's because it's not really about sex (the baseline commonality) so much as it is the celebration of men, expressed through being a handsome hard body and depicting them through an extensive array of high culture visual art mediums. That's what it is. Plus, nobody wants a dude who is unkempt, unhygienic and out of shape.
That makes sense, and yeah, hopefully society gets over this bullshit sooner rather than later. I think it doesn't help that some people think this is a new phenomenon.
If you don't mind me asking, is it harder to come out for more traditionally masculine gay/bi dudes?
That makes sense, and yeah, hopefully society gets over this bullshit sooner rather than later. I think it doesn't help that some people think this is a new phenomenon.
If you don't mind me asking, is it harder to come out for more traditionally masculine gay/bi dudes?
Speaking to Hall, however, Steffy urged his supporters to lay off the “negativity and negative comments” directed at his classmate.
“I have no idea what’s going on in his life, as he has no idea what’s going on in mine,” Steffy said. “I can’t hold what he said accountable against him, because I don’t know how he was raised. ... I don’t know if it was a heat-of-the-moment thing. I don’t know if it was what he truly believes in.”
Ha, kid is a better man than I, I don't know that I'd be that understanding
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