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Opinion America: Should It Exist?

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Teppodama, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. Teppodama Red Belt

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    Leaving aside the argument of settlers vs indigenous natives, this question is specific to whether one believes the colonists of the time had a right to demand their independence from Britain and the British government? Where they on the "right side of history", as laughable as that phrase or notion is.

    I ask this question because of current events in censorship of speech, government overreach, the very real concern of partisanship in the judicial branch, increased militarization of domestic law enforcement, questions of voting integrity, gerrymandering and all the various arguments that get bandied around here and the rest of the nation about how awful and unfair this country is.

    If a State or County wanted to break off from the collective body should they be able to do so if the majority within the State or County truly desired it and voted on it and no longer believes the Federal or State government represents their interests.

    What if they simply desired to incorporate into another neighboring State to which they feel politically and socially aligned?
     
  2. genecop Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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  3. 7437 Banned Banned

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    If they are capable of fighting off the USA when they attack, sure. Otherwise, that's US land, and people are free to renounce citizenship if they want to leave.
     
  4. Sketch (҂`_´) <,︻╦╤─ ҉ - - -USK

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    At the time, breaking off from Britain was a good call. Even now, it still would be. England as a whole has been under control by Globalists for a long time. America actually managed to break the Globalists rule for a bit there, but after WW2 (And During) America was used as pawns and are now under their cabal as well.
     
  5. nac386 Steel Belt

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    The relatively short answering is that if the United States government decided to continue collecting taxes from a specific state, while disallowing them from participating in the voting process, then I'd support their demand for emancipation. But I do not believe a state should have the right to essentially disband from the United States because the majority of their state wants to do so.

    But the very idea of it is sort of hilarious. Obviously no state would actually want that, but if there had to be one, which would it be? Can we nominate Florida? We could call it Flexit.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. A Very Serious Cat Red Belt

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    Everyone has the right to demand independence from a ruler. It's just a matter of if the person demanding indpendance has enough power to make it happen. The American colonists it turns out the power achieve it
     
  7. Teppodama Red Belt

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    Their ally France had the ability to lend them the power they needed. Maybe that would be the way. The nascent country-state could align with a world power like China to force an emancipation.

    <Baelish01>
     
  8. HockeyBjj Putting on the foil

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    Didn't have the right, but had guns and the means and desire to support themselves independently and fought to gain that right

    Helped a lot that American revolutionists were basically used as proxies by the likes of France with their support to beat down the big dog British for them
     
  9. Teppodama Red Belt

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    Without a robust 2A, no State or County would ever be able to even remotely put up a fight.
     
  10. Fluffernutter Silver Belt

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  11. Teppodama Red Belt

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    Regardless of the eventual outcome, should the original colonial rebellion be considered criminals, traitors, terrorists and the birth of the nation they founded illegitimate?

    Or does might make right?
     
  12. Javelina Red Belt

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  13. A Very Serious Cat Red Belt

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    Well by power I don't just mean military, power can include political or economic.

    Day if one state wants to leave and they have enough influence to convince a large portion of the USA then it can be done without firing a shot.

    Just like a smaller nation appealing for help to deal with an aggressor. While they don't have military power themselves they have friends who do, that's still power.
     
  14. A Very Serious Cat Red Belt

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    If they feel oppressed enough they have the right to try and be free, that course of action may not be the wisest though
     
  15. PolishHeadlock2 Absolutley Haram Platinum Member

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    I think the tipping point was Great Britain started canceling charters when the colonies tried to air their grievances.

    @Limbo Pete
     
  16. Teppodama Red Belt

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    Ah Yes, the "one world" notion. Ok, let's go with the one world government idea. One bureaucracy to rule it all. What then is your recourse should you not agree with their laws? If the courts support the establishment? If you have no real recourse of armed rebellion?
     
  17. IngaVovchanchyn Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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    It's not just winning the war, though that was a big part of it. It was also the ability to unify disparate colonies under a confederate and then federal constitution. So the subsequent political success adds legitimacy as well. And finally, the ability to revolt without a large scale internal bloodbath afterwards or wholesale political subjugation of some states, even though the revolutionaries were never a majority of the American population should add weight to the side of right.

    Whether there were (or are) British politicians or historians that considered the Americans traitors or the American state illegitimate became irrelevant when they were forced to recognize it as an independent state and then later failed to force the upstart country to accept an unequal relationship between the two countries. After 1812, the UK was never afforded an opportunity to regain any measure of control of influence over their former colony.
     
  18. IngaVovchanchyn Titanium Belt Platinum Member

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    I love the way the song sounds, but he's imagining a lot of things that make people lives worse, not better.
     
  19. Limbo Pete Fake History Man

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    The answer(s) to why we had a revolution are a lot more complicated and, often, less savory that many would perhaps like to hear. Narratives that gloss over the motivations of, say, George Washington are hard to touch. People have difficulty grasping that a lot of things can be true at the same time; yes, people wanted Britain to fuck off and stop bossing us around from 900 million miles away. Yes, George Washington (and others) were ruthless land speculators that wanted to make hordes of money off territorial expansion. And so on.
    It should be noted that Great Britain could have thrown much more at putting down the rebellion than they did, and that they also flexed their massive control over sea trade after the war and kept the colonial economy in the shitter for a long time.
     
  20. HockeyBjj Putting on the foil

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    It's a might makes right thing since the ensuing nation ended up one of the world's best democracies and fairest and freest places to live rather than a tyrannical dictatorship.

    They were rebellious criminals who threw off the law and governance of the land in order to declare themselves the rulers with no legal claim to that. There are definitely parallels of it to ISIS with the difference being that most recognize at least in hindsight that the American revolutionists were attempting to make a better place for the majority of the people, while the terrorist groups like ISIS were attempting to enforce their rule military over people who would be subjugated to them.
     

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