America’s not so great military

[DeJulez]

Let’s be real.

I’m not hating. I’m being realistic.

America has won just one time since WWII. Korea considered a draw. Vietnam considered an outright loss (more political, but still). Won desert storm. Iraq and Afghanistan have been failures so far. The main issue with Iraq and Afghanistan is you can’t win because there’s no way you’re going to destroy an idea (an idea that you guys created), but you can’t leave or just ask for peace at this point anymore. Ya fucked up, big time.

Technologically, you’re the best. Strategically, on the ground, hmm..



So amazing that one if your own prefers to use special forces from a different country instead of his own, lol.

I’m not saying any specific country is better because in reality we’re all not nearly as powerful as we think. I honestly feel america has become too reliant on their tech and their soldiers aren’t what they used to be. There’s more to war than just bombs. How are you on the ground? Definitely one of the best still, but without your bombs you’re in a real hard place.

Believe me I’m on your side when I say this. These are just historical facts. So don’t hate on me, hate reality.

I love you, Murica. Canada is more Americanized than you seem to think (except the French part above us).

This is the reality of war. Let’s understand these countries we’ve all made fun of are VERY capable. They’re stronger than you’d think. America has went through hell time and time again and in the end it’s almost always never worked out. War is complicated.

This is gonna upset some people for no reason, but oh well. Ignore facts again and share opinions. Time for war.

Going off Team Deathmatch rules....
We beat the shit out of Vietnam and Korea.

Korea being a draw was a bad call.
I had it 116-112 America

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

Lmao ok Ronald mcdonald.

Stop posting and go read the links, then come back and argue your main point...there are so many examples of how you are wrong which is why only uneducated people bring it up. Its like the damn world Football vs American Football argument. Only people that dont know history bring it up.

 

[Deleted member 196663]

Let’s be real.

I’m not hating. I’m being realistic.

America has won just one time since WWII. Korea considered a draw. Vietnam considered an outright loss (more political, but still). Won desert storm. Iraq and Afghanistan have been failures so far. The main issue with Iraq and Afghanistan is you can’t win because there’s no way you’re going to destroy an idea (an idea that you guys created), but you can’t leave or just ask for peace at this point anymore. Ya fucked up, big time.

Technologically, you’re the best. Strategically, on the ground, hmm..



So amazing that one if your own prefers to use special forces from a different country instead of his own, lol.

I’m not saying any specific country is better because in reality we’re all not nearly as powerful as we think. I honestly feel america has become too reliant on their tech and their soldiers aren’t what they used to be. There’s more to war than just bombs. How are you on the ground? Definitely one of the best still, but without your bombs you’re in a real hard place.

Believe me I’m on your side when I say this. These are just historical facts. So don’t hate on me, hate reality.

I love you, Murica. Canada is more Americanized than you seem to think (except the French part above us).

This is the reality of war. Let’s understand these countries we’ve all made fun of are VERY capable. They’re stronger than you’d think. America has went through hell time and time again and in the end it’s almost always never worked out. War is complicated.

This is gonna upset some people for no reason, but oh well. Ignore facts again and share opinions. Time for war.

You're essentially describing the difference between wars of choice and wars of survival. If you want to see how great it actually is then you have to talk about potential. So imagine if Canada bombed New York City.

 

[lfd0311]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH WAT?! Ok you’re a troll. I get it now. Just trying to make arguments based on opinion. I’m done.

A few years ago Russia rolled out their new "fleet" of tanks and fighting vehicles, etc. It was almost as good as the stuff we had pre-war, back in the 90s. Almost.

 

[HIMBOB]

The military can fight really well by dropping bombs in things.

Then they try to make friends with the people who got bombed.


It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it works out for them.

 

[Rholk]

America even knows the Russians armed these cunts before they ever went in to overthrow saddam. But complaining about that and risking war with Russia? That’s seriously some end of the world shit and everybody knows it. America and Russia been having a dick measuring contest since the end of WWII. I’m glad America is the one leading and not Russia, that’s for sure. So I am grateful for you motherfuckers,trust me.

Russia has canceled its 5th generation fighter the Su57 (aka T50). They will build in some stealth into older planes. Russia is not able to buy large numbers of its new Armata tanks at $4 million each. They will upgrade older T72 tanks. Russia used to be the world leader in space launches. China has most of their older space rocket designs. Russia has recognized that they cannot compete with SpaceX and China in space launches.

Russia cut back its military buildup and has flat military procurement budgets for the next ten years.

Russia has had slow GDP growth or negative GDP growth since 2008.

If the US economy grows at 4% per year then the US adds more than entire Russian economy ($1.7 trillion) in less than 2 years.

Russia is weak and getting weaker relative to the US, India, Europe and the USA.

Russia’s population is shrinking again
In 2017, 1.69 million children were born in Russia which was down by 203,000 compared to 2016 and equal to the number of births in Russia in 2007. It is the third consecutive year that Rosstat has registered a decline in Russia’s birthrate.

In 2016, Russia had 1,893,237 births and 1,887,907 deaths, for a natural population increase of just 5,330 people, not counting immigration. There were about 1,824,340 (12.4/1,000) deaths in 2017. Russia’s population reduced about 131,000 in 2017 from more deaths than births. Russia did have some immigration, Russia population did grow in 2016 by 257,700 people, while in 2017, population growth amounted to only 77,400.

Russia has 782,000 births in the first half of 2018. This is tracking to about 1.55 million births for 2018. Assuming deaths stay level to 2017, then this would be a reduction of about 260,000 people in 2018.

The amount of births in Russia will likely remain low as an echo of the baby bust from 1992-2010.

Russians living in poverty increased from 15.5 million in 2013 to 19.8 million in 2016.

The number of children born in Russia in 2014 was officially reported as 1.9 million, but that figure included children born in Crimea, the Ukrainian peninsula that Moscow seized that year.

Russia’s population peaked at more than 148 million in 1992, the year after the Soviet Union collapsed. Russia’s population was claimed to be 144.3 million in 2016.

There are no official population statistics for 2016. Rosstat, the official Government statistics agency, suggested that the population of Russia in 2011 was 141.8 million, and the CIA estimated that the population was even lower: 138.7 million.

Former finance minister Aleksey Kudrin forecasts a decline of 10 million people of working-age in Russians by 2033.

Russia would have had a very high ratio of old people in its populations, except there was a surge in people dying from alcohol and other issues.

Russia stabilized its longevity and increased life expectancy from 64 in 1994 back to 72.

Russia’s population could shrink to about 110 million in 2050. Although the UN projects a population fo about 132 million in 2050.

By 2050, Poland and Ukraine with some NATO support would probably have the economic and military might to resist a conventional Russian attack.

Russia should Negotiate peace with Ukraine, get more foreign investment, fix the corruption
Russia’s per capita GDP is less than Poland and Hungary, which were part of the USSR. Poland has been consistently growing at 4% per year. Russia has a fairly well-educated population. A peaceful and open Russia that invested in improving education and public health could match Poland’s growth.

Russia could get the foreign investment to finish modernizing its economy. They had the growth and investment from 1999-2008.

Russia needs to fix its crime and corruption problems.

Russia needs to fix itself up and improve its economy by making itself as useful as possible to China, India, ASEAN and Europe. There is high growth around Russia. A peaceful, clean Russia could have a lot of tourism and could participate in the economic growth around it.

Russia needs more babies and immigration more than it needs military equipment.

Meh, russia won't be much of a problem in the future

 

[sub_thug]

Of course. But it’s still not that easy. Radar tech today is incredible for air, land and water. All major countries have it now, and Iraq definitely does too, especially since BOTH Russia and America has helped arm them through the last 30+ years. I’m not saying these things (sending bombs) won’t work, radar doesn’t get everything, but most of these places have tech to counter these things now. The reason bombs are being dropped so effortlessly over there is because you’re nit messing with their military, in fact you’re all on the same side now trying to get rid of ISIS and the like. The Iraq military is not the problem and never was. Iraq military is stronger than ever And it’s thanks to 2 world super powers making them that way.

Missile defense is super hard. Most countries can't do it at all, much less do it well. It requires missiles that can intercept your missiles. There are maybe 20 countries that can even try to do this, and none of them are in the Middle East.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

No, you can't make people do something they don't care about doing. Making decisions for other people doesn't really work. We've lost our perspective on that.

Yeah, by force, you can't make people do shit, nor should you.
But things in Iraq could have worked out better with proper planning and incentives. You can make people think they want something, or give them things or reasons to want what you want. But there was no plan or conversation with the locals to get that done.
With no understanding of the people, or what they wanted, and no plan for the future, there was no chance of any lasting victory

 

[Gregolian]

Missile defense is super hard. Most countries can't do it at all, much less do it well. It requires missiles that can intercept your missiles. There are maybe 20 countries that can even try to do this, and none of them are in the Middle East.

Even Israel with all the shit we send them?

 

[Gregolian]

Yeah, by force, you can't make people do shit, nor should you.
But things in Iraq could have worked out better with proper planning and incentives. You can make people think they want something, or give them things or reasons to want what you want. But there was no plan or conversation with the locals to get that done.
With no understanding of the people, or what they wanted, and no plan for the future, there was no chance of any lasting victory

Iraq was doomed from the start. The simple fact they had the Recon Battalion of Marines rolling in an vehicle convoy in Humvees with no armor and some with no doors or even a proper roof should explain to you how fucked that whole thing was from the get-go.

 

[That209]

It has one single "major" city of about 3 million people. There are almost as many people in Texas as there are in Afghanistan. It's an amazingly backwards and cut off place. It's next biggest "city" is Kandahar, which is a little bit smaller than Des Moines, Iowa. The had one somewhat paved road in the entire country prior to 2001. It was built by the Russians for their use when they invaded back in the 70's. You know literally nothing about the subject at hand, and are just talking.






Most of these groups have existed in one form or another since the Crusades. Many of the people fighting in these groups see themselves as soliders fighting in a war that in their eyes started in 1096 with the First Crusade and in their eyes has never ended. So sure, you can repeat the cool talking points you heard in your Junior High Class about how America "created" these groups without being able to understand or even articulate any sort of context for that argument, but we certainly didn't create the ideologies behind them. Those have existed since the Middle Ages. P.S. that "read a book" comment? Comedy Gold.

Why are we talking about Afghanistan cities again? We’re talking about armed conflicts, man. Stop it.

Yes, some of these groups have been around for a very long time. Their religion is part of the reason for that. It’s always been unstable in the Middle East, but you did create Isis. They’re a little more recent and the worst we’ve seen I’m pretty sure. They’re actually a very powerful group and they rose QUICK. All because of their beliefs/silly religion (sunnis and shia muslims fighting each other, ibadi as well), became worse after America came in and killed saddam.

It basically became a power struggle between religious groups that have been around for hundreds of years like you said, but once many Iraq military was trained and armed and they already had these beliefs in their heads, they went into some of these groups and eventually Isis came out. If I remember correctly, Isis started as like a political protest group, and eventually they took it to the next level when they felt words weren’t enough. Now they simply just want power and control. We can’t have that, and unfortunately America is stuck there now fighting an unwinnable war. A complete waste of resources.

You can’t kill an idea/belief.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Iraq was doomed from the start. The simple fact they had the Recon Battalion of Marines rolling in an vehicle convoy in Humvees with no armor and some with no doors or even a proper roof should explain to you how fucked that whole thing was from the get-go.

Everything to do with the Middle East was fucked from the start on all sides.
The premise, the mission , battle preparation, understanding of the enemy, what to do after winning. ..there was no real "winning" to be done.
I'm just saying from the clean up side of things, if it ever had any possibility of success, it required a lot more work and understanding of the locals

 

[Gregolian]

Everything to do with the Middle East was fucked from the start on all sides.
The premise, the mission , battle preparation, understanding of the enemy, what to do after winning. ..there was no real "winning" to be done.
I'm just saying from the clean up side of things, if it ever had any possibility of success, it required a lot more work and understanding of the locals

There's plenty of stories of when the Marines and other units got to Baghdad they were told they'd be billet'd in key government buildings and shit to use as a base and go out during the day providing food, medical care, water, and shit like that to the locals for a couple weeks at a time.

Only problem was that basically never happened. And they never patrolled at night. Instead they let the Shiite and Sunnis kill each other all night and the higher ups kept the ground forces moving around so they'd tell a neighborhood "we'll be back with water, medical supplies, and food tomorrow" only they'd be stuck loading up the Humvees and driving to the next spot.

 

[Mr. Shickadance]

Let's be real can anyone beat us right now? If no, than America has the greatest miltary in the world, regardless of it's past.

Now of you wanna talk about how are miltary strategy can be flawed sure. Nobody's perfect but to say it isn't great as compared to who? Canada? Could they beat us in a war? Nope .

I'm not even a military guy, but to pretend america isn't the strongest miltary force on the world is crazy, and if that's not great I don't know what is.

 

[That209]

A few years ago Russia rolled out their new "fleet" of tanks and fighting vehicles, etc. It was almost as good as the stuff we had pre-war, back in the 90s. Almost.

This is like me saying “well Russia had the biggest nuke test so they win!”.

They have more than double the amount of tanks you have. They have more than double the artillery, etc. Don’t believe me? There’s a site called armedforces, go check it out, it has the stats. Again, numbers don’t mean shit. Russia is a real fucking super power and would give the US absolute hell. That’s a fact. Who would win? I don’t know. We don’t know. I truly believe the world would end if you fought Russia. You and Russia are the world super powers today. The top ones. You’ve always been neck and neck after WWII. The level of espionage from both countries is just incredible, too.

 

[That209]

Stop posting and go read the links, then come back and argue your main point...there are so many examples of how you are wrong which is why only uneducated people bring it up. Its like the damn world Football vs American Football argument. Only people that dont know history bring it up.

I’ll get to you when I’m ready, son. I haven’t forgotten, just that there’s more interesting conversation happening.

 

[Gregolian]

This is like me saying “well Russia had the biggest nuke test so they win!”.

They have more than double the amount of tanks you have. They have more than double the artillery, etc. Don’t believe me? There’s a site called armedforces, go check it out, it has the stats. Again, numbers don’t mean shit. Russia is a real fucking super power and would give the US absolute hell. That’s a fact. Who would win? I don’t know. We don’t know. I truly believe the world would end if you fought Russia. You and Russia are the world super powers today. The top ones. You’ve always been neck and neck after WWII. The level of espionage from both countries is just incredible, too.

Gulf War 1 the amount of tanks the US fielded wasn't close to what Saddam fielded and the burned carcasses of the tanks still litter Kuwait to this day.

 

[lfd0311]

Why are we talking about Afghanistan cities again? We’re talking about armed conflicts, man. Stop it.

Why'd you bring it up? This is a common debate point of idiots. Make a silly point, get called out on silly point, act like the silly point they just made is the other person's fault. If you don't want to talk about that, don't bring it up.

Yes, some of these groups have been around for a very long time. Their religion is part of the reason for that. It’s always been unstable in the Middle East, but you did create Isis. They’re a little more recent and the worst we’ve seen I’m pretty sure. They’re actually a very powerful group and they rose QUICK. All because of their beliefs/silly religion (sunnis and shia muslims fighting each other, ibadi as well), became worse after America came in and killed saddam.

It became worse after Obama withdrew from Iraq. And no, they aren't a new group. They're an old group, AQI, renamed. You need to understand that our exact purpose with going into Iraq was to get all of these little isolated, far flung groups to amass in one area in which we could fight them all at the same time. This current "problem" isn't by accident, it was by design, and thier religion is the absolute main, driving factor.

It basically became a power struggle between religious groups that have been around for hundreds of years like you said, but once many Iraq military was trained and armed and they already had these beliefs in their heads, they went into some of these groups and eventually Isis came out. If I remember correctly, Isis started as like a political protest group, and eventually they took it to the next level when they felt words weren’t enough. Now they simply just want power and control. We can’t have that, and unfortunately America is stuck there now fighting an unwinnable war. A complete waste of resources.

You're absolutely not remembering correctly. You've obviously paid half attention to what has been going on for the last 17 years and have combined all of that into one story.

 

[drstrangelov]

2 wins in Iraq, 1 in Afghanistan, defeating the Chinese army in Korea, complete military defense of the homeland since 1941, id say the track record is solid. The US got bogged down too long in Vietnam, and they probably shouldn't have ever got involved there or in Iraq, but they still managed to define and achieve victory the second time around. If this is just a routine reminder that the US lost Vietnam, it's a fair point, don't get too cocky, but that doesn't sustain the broader point in your post.

 

[Lonesome Crow]

I don’t know, the Russians are pretty fucking powerful and damn near fearless.

...risking war with Russia? That’s seriously some end of the world shit and everybody knows it. America and Russia been having a dick measuring contest since the end of WWII.

We got into a direct confrontation with the Russians earlier this year.

We absolutely fucking smoked them.

But don't take my word for it, take the word of a Russian who survived the encounter:

"They beat our asses like we were little pieces of shit."

"They simply rolled us out fucking hard. Made their point."

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-leaked-audio-humiliating-defeat-by-us-forces-2018-2

https://www.polygraph.info/a/us-wagner-russia-syria-scores-killed/29044339.html

That dick measuring contest with the Russians?