Amateur matches are glorified sparring sessions :P

[Boxiana]

 

[aries]

It's a different sport! That has nothing to do with prize fighting and professional boxing. Amateur boxers are amateurs. You don't want to fly a plane that has been repaired by amateur mechanic, do you?

Notable fighers who didn't have succesful amateur background, and are considered best fighters:
James L. Sullivan
Jack Johnson
Jack Dempsey

Do not ever, I mean never, compare professional to an amateur!

This is simply not true these days. Countries with proper Olympic boxing programs pay their 'amateurs' a decent wage and they train 6+ hours a day 6 days a week. That's more professional than many professionals. In England if you train with the Olympic team you have full access to world class sports science universities to further enhance the efficacy of your training. Only the top pros can get access to such resources. But I do agree they are different sports but there is a fair bit of cross over.

And someone may know the answer but are their any top pros who have no amateur experience because off the top of my head I can't think of any.

 

[PrideUltimate]

This is simply not true these days. Countries with proper Olympic boxing programs pay their 'amateurs' a decent wage and they train 6+ hours a day 6 days a week. That's more professional than many professionals. In England if you train with the Olympic team you have full access to world class sports science universities to further enhance the efficacy of your training. Only the top pros can get access to such resources. But I do agree they are different sports but there is a fair bit of cross over.

And someone may know the answer but are their any top pros who have no amateur experience because off the top of my head I can't think of any.

I'd like say: Canelo, but even he had amateur career at age 13-15. But I just want to state if those British boxers had those same facilities and they focused on professional career, they would be better professional boxers.

 

[aries]

I'd like say: Canelo, but even he had amateur career at age 13-15. But I just want to state if those British boxers had those same facilities and they focused on professional career, they would be better professional boxers.

Yes, if they had concentrated on pro boxing they'd be better pro boxers. Of course but top amatuers today aren't really amateurs, it's just a different sport but as I said with cross over.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

This is simply not true these days. Countries with proper Olympic boxing programs pay their 'amateurs' a decent wage and they train 6+ hours a day 6 days a week. That's more professional than many professionals. In England if you train with the Olympic team you have full access to world class sports science universities to further enhance the efficacy of your training. Only the top pros can get access to such resources. But I do agree they are different sports but there is a fair bit of cross over.

And someone may know the answer but are their any top pros who have no amateur experience because off the top of my head I can't think of any.

Julio Cezar Chavez, as I have already mentioned in this thread. no official amateur records of any kind, though his team claims he competed locally in his city with a 15-1 ammy rec.

Dwight Muhammad Qawi, only had one amateur fight ever that we heard about, and he lost in it.

and Billy Conn had zero amateur fights and confirmed it.

Rocky was 11-3 as an amateur.


It is common in mexico to start out as a pro boxer with no amateur experience, some teenagers did it too.

 

[aries]

Julio Cezar Chavez, as I have already mentioned in this thread. no official amateur records of any kind, though his team claims he competed locally in his city with a 15-1 ammy rec.

Dwight Muhammad Qawi, only had one amateur fight ever that we heard about, and he lost in it.

and Billy Conn had zero amateur fights and confirmed it.

Rocky was 11-3 as an amateur.


It is common in mexico to start out as a pro boxer with no amateur experience, some teenagers did it too.

Didn't know that about Chavez. Still had 16 fights though. I know this list isn't definitive but basically not having some amateur background is extremely rare for pro boxers. Qawi surprises me though as he was a great techician. And Mexico seems similar to Thailand where the young Thais fight pro (in MT) from an early age to earn money for their families.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Didn't know that about Chavez. Still had 16 fights though. I know this list isn't definitive but basically not having some amateur background is extremely rare for pro boxers. Qawi surprises me though as he was a great techician. And Mexico seems similar to Thailand where the young Thais fight pro (in MT) from an early age to earn money for their families.

16 amateur fights with no official record in your local city is equal to nothing... That can be an interclub gathering. My bjj gym once did an interclub with another gym, and everybody got a participation medal. Doesn't mean it's gonna be recognized by the IBJJF.
Might as well count that time you drove to your cousin for thanksgiving and had a quick spar in his local gym with him and his team mates.

If something doesn't have official record, it's less meaningful than a junior golden glove at your local community center(which you actually can get papers to prove"

 

[aries]

16 amateur fights with no official record in your local city is equal to nothing... That can be an interclub gathering. My bjj gym once did an interclub with another gym, and everybody got a participation medal. Doesn't mean it's gonna be recognized by the IBJJF.
Might as well count that time you drove to your cousin for thanksgiving and had a quick spar in his local gym with him and his team mates.

If something doesn't have official record, it's less meaningful than a junior golden glove at your local community center(which you actually can get papers to prove"

That's open to debate. They might have been 16 interclubs or they may have been 16 proper ammie bouts. In the UK once you've had more than 10 bouts you are no longer a novice and fight in open class where you could be boxing Lomachenko in your next bout. Anyway 16 bouts is still some experience and my point still stands, it's extremely rare for a professional boxer NOT to have some amateur experience.

 

[PrideUltimate]

...it's extremely rare for a professional boxer NOT to have some amateur experience.

Wait a second, how about Paul brothers?

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

That's open to debate. They might have been 16 interclubs or they may have been 16 proper ammie bouts. In the UK once you've had more than 10 bouts you are no longer a novice and fight in open class where you could be boxing Lomachenko in your next bout. Anyway 16 bouts is still some experience and my point still stands, it's extremely rare for a professional boxer NOT to have some amateur experience.

6 pro fights give you better experience than 50 ammies.
Something being rare does not mean anything. the fact that we named a bunch of very successful world level pros with barely any ammy experience means more. Thank god doing ammy fights in mma isn't as common. Just cause most people do something, doesn't make it a necessity.

Anyway, I think we can all agree at least that having too many amateur fights is bad in every way imaginable for the many reasons already stated in this thread.

 

[aries]

6 pro fights give you better experience than 50 ammies.
Something being rare does not mean anything. the fact that we named a bunch of very successful world level pros with barely any ammy experience means more. Thank god doing ammy fights in mma isn't as common. Just cause most people do something, doesn't make it a necessity.

Anyway, I think we can all agree at least that having too many amateur fights is bad in every way imaginable for the many reasons already stated in this thread.

A bunch of pros?? You named about 4. It's rare. If you want to argue the point carry on.

The fact is that some of the greatest fighters in the sport had a decent number of amateur fights, sure you don't need 400 fights like Loma but they had a decent amount, Roy Jones Junior, Muhammed Ali, Andre Ward, Sugar Ray Leonard and Floyd Mayweather all show that. But I suppose those amateur fights hampered their greatness?

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

A bunch of pros?? You named about 4. It's rare. If you want to argue the point carry on.

The fact is that some of the greatest fighters in the sport had a decent number of amateur fights, sure you don't need 400 fights like Loma but they had a decent amount, Roy Jones Junior, Muhammed Ali, Andre Ward, Sugar Ray Leonard and Floyd Mayweather all show that. But I suppose those amateur fights hampered their greatness?

Sigh, again i dont even know why i got drawn into this. You made up an argument that i prefer no amateur boxing. Nope, i said its a wast of time to have hundreds of fights.

Besides what ur talking about is not logical and cant be used to explain anything. Those guys have a lot of amateur fights just cause its what everybody does.

if there was a population of millions of fighters with out amateur background competing now then u might have an argument.

Plus nobody wants their pro record to look bad as nobody looks at ur amateur record if u got a few loses there.

 

[aries]

Sigh, again i dont even know why i got drawn into this. You made up an argument that i prefer no amateur boxing. Nope, i said its a wast of time to have hundreds of fights.

Besides what ur talking about is not logical and cant be used to explain anything. Those guys have a lot of amateur fights just cause its what everybody does.

if there was a population of millions of fighters with out amateur background competing now then u might have an argument.

Plus nobody wants their pro record to look bad as nobody looks at ur amateur record if u got a few loses there.

I'm only basing my argument on your very first point which was '1-"but but.. it can really give you a good base to prepare".. umm no, it can only get u more used to amatuer boxing style' Which I totally disagree with. A good base in amateur boxing is how some of the greatest fighters in the world made their start. But you are arguing that it only helps them get better as amateur boxers. That is simply not true.

And your point that is simply what some fighters do misses why they do it. Because it's a good build up to a pro career. You can't turn pro in the US or the UK until you are 17 or maybe 18. So what do young boxers do? They box amateur. So boxers like Floyd and Andre Ward who started young had to do it by amateur boxing. In South and Central America where you can turn pro younger you have a point but in the West, amateur boxing is never going to die out as long as there is that age limit on pros.

And in the UK they won't even let you turn pro unless you have a decent amateur background or in some cases you've done something else like kickboxing. This is the British Boxing Board of Controls take on having an amateur boxing record: For anyone striving to get to the top of the professional sport it is almost impossible without first having had a good amateur career

http://bbbofc.com/content/applying-be-boxer

 

[Blazeblack]

What is your issue with the amateurs ts? You go and start a whole new thread shitting on the amateurs after I said that Ryan Garcia could have used a year or two developing in the elite division against adults.

 

[Badoldman]

I’m 57 and had a long amateur and masters competition. Began sparring against professionals back in my late teens when that decision time came. Tell you what happened. I got the shit beat out of me. What separates a good pro prospect from a great amateur. Good power and a set of whiskers. I was not a great amateur. Middling record. I love to fight though. After I got into the open class in USA boxing I won more than I lost. But every now and then I met the real thing. The kid who was biding his time and going to pro boxing school. I was mature, experienced and strong and could I take a punch. But I cannot tell you how many boxing lessons I got. Faster, stronger, natural punchers, with great eyes and anticipation. I went to the Ringside World Championships and had a walkover Thursday night. On Friday I met an Israeli national amateur champion. He ran me out of the ring in the second round. Not literally, but my corner threw in the towel. I have never had my corner stop a fight for me before or since. I don’t think I landed a single punch. He would bob-and weave and pop up in front of me about the time the flashbulbs would go off. No cameras, just that split second you lose your vision because you have been hit with a good shot. I tried to close, he moved away punching me with a trip hammer jab. I tried to box him moving my head and feet. He would launch a body hook from back in Israel and hit me right on the floating right rib or right on my liver. I threw a hook behind a right lead and spun all the way around with him hitting me as he punched a circle around me. I do not remember the end of the first round or the beginning of the second. I still thought it was the first round. No sir, I loved to fight but disliked getting my ass beat. I still train 6-7 days a week. The decision not to go pro was not because I was afraid. It was because I wasn’t talented enough. My trainer who was a former Seoul Olympic coach told me the truth. He said “there is no future in professional boxing for you Mejo”. He told me I was a warrior in the gym but a punching bag in the ring. I had all the illusions of a pro career beat out of me. My trainer told me “you have a professional degree, go practice your profession and make lots of money with your mind, you’ll be nothing but a win on some pro’s career.” Even as a master boxer I would meet a fighter every now and then who was 3 years my junior or senior. Usually someone who found boxing late in life and like me, boxed for fun. The difference was he would have made a good pro and I would not. Usually some truck driver, or police officer or some amateur coach and I would be that night’s best fight. Him beating the crap out of me and me chasing him in big pillowy 16oz master’s gloves. They moved better, had better vision and anticipation and could punch from angles. Yes, I loved competing and still love training in my older years. I live the boxer’s lifestyle. Health and great fitness are the result. But beating up on younger fighters.....I only wish I could. Just my opinion based on lots of experience.

 

[eternaldarkness]

They're faster and stronger and don't have the schedule constructions of someone like me with a wife, kid, and career. They could be looking to make a real run at things and take their training very seriously. Weight cuts are a lot easier for them.

My only thing i assume I have better than them is discipline. When I'm competing my diet is impeccable and I am religious about my conditioning

I have learnt to use my power a lot better as I got older.

 

[Cariñito]

Wait a second, how about Paul brothers?

Logan Paul had an amateur fight

 

[Cariñito]

Pro is better than amateur but amateur still means something.
It's also funny that every pro boxer lost in the 2016 Olympics. It wasnt the best of the best but there were a couple former champions in the mix.

 

[Hagler]

Amateur fights are, like, amateur fights.

 

[KillerIsBack V2]

Amateur fights are, like, amateur fights.

No they're not.
If you're in one of the few eastern european countries that you get paid well as an olympic boxer so you make it your main profession for 24 years, then no, it is amateur by name alone.