Am i wrong?

[threelions]

Okay i always avoid posting on other forums about training because of the myths surrounding working out with the average day to day person.

So i made the mistake of posting Jarfi's routine as help to a guy who wanted to get into condition. Ive done this to mates and theyve always had great results. I told him to be careful and learn his technique first, then some guy who thinks he's a workout guru(though looks like a middle age office worker) piped in with this just because it went against his advice.

EDIT - I also mentioned that free weights are better than machines and that 20 reps or more are endurance not strength thats why he mentions that.

This business of 'stabilizer' muscles is amusing. Really, seriously think about what you're saying. Find a chart of the skeletal muscles and point out 'stabilizer' muscles. Find a bodybuilder and have him point to his 'stabilizer' muscles; he'll scratch his head for you.

Stabilizing or ancillary or whatever kind of muscles you want to call them are a myth that Soloflex rattled upon as a marketing scheme. When you have 200lbs of weight pressing down upon you I don't care if it's via a weight bar or a bar attached to cables, every muscle that can help to keep that bar from smashing your forehead open is going to be at work. Fatiguing those muscles with either apparatus will do just fine and the machines are much safer in the end.

Believing that you have some extra muscles in your body somewhere, awaiting iron weights versus cable machines makes no sense at all. Most machines have an arch of movement which is more natural compared with the linear movement (up/down) of free weights. Going to failure each set is the quickest way to muscle growth, if that is what one wants, and how your Central Nervous System would get "burned out" is very puzzling (are you suggesting seizures? sleepiness?). You can maintain a current level of conditioning without going to muscle failure, by doing one set of everything and being done with it. What these questions are about here is getting bigger & stronger.

20 reps on bench, and if I cannot do any more than that, I have fatigued the muscle. Period. I have not given it more 'endurance' nor have my heart/lungs given out first.

I use *less* weight on the machines than what would be the equivalent of my body weight if doing 'pressups' or pushups, yet I am developing again quickly. I would caution you to avoid suggesting that my physique is at a 'very very basic level.' I don't suggest anyone buy some overpriced Matt Furey book, only that, if someone wants to train for fitness they can easily do so without the need of machines at all - that includes pressups and pullups, situps and squats, et al, not "just" pullups as you're suggesting.

I come to this thread having worked out since I was 13 years old, now being 37 and in better shape than most everyone I encounter in any given day. Add to that 16 years of working in the healthcare profession. I find many of your suggestions to be that of the typical gymrat, full of misinformation and a misunderstanding of basic physiology.

So was i wrong? Is he right? I followed most people advice here and what ive been taught by people i train with(who compete at a Commonwealth level) so i dont see where i went wrong.

Any feedback appreciated so i dont just end up calling the guy a twat.

 

[Evil Eye Gouger]

For people like that, the best response is to cite as many studies as you can so their perceived "superiority" is shot down.

I suggest this: http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/publications/technique/1996/8/strength-training.html

Plenty of studies cited there.

 

[chia]

Healthcare profession? What the fuck is he, an orderly? Most doctors, physiologists, or orthos I know aren't ashamed of posting their degrees.

He is 37 years old and beyond saving. Everything he just said was wrong. Just call him a twat let him be.


By the way, can you post or PM me Jarfi's routine?

 

[Alon]

So was i wrong? Is he right? I followed most people advice here and what ive been taught by people i train with(who compete at a Commonwealth level) so i dont see where i went wrong.

Any feedback appreciated so i dont just end up calling the guy a twat.

He's a dick, but out of curiousity what sport do these Commonwealth lifters train in?

I don't know enough about physiology to argue about specific muscles, but in terms of CNS burnout I know exactly how that feels, after every competition I can do nothing but sleep and walk around like a zombie for at least a week, same with the occasional heavy session.

If you want to argue a results based response then ask him why weightlifters and powerlifters train with such low reps most of the time (at the very least well below 20 reps).

 

[Universal]

Free weights = extra effort to balance load = This guy is a fuckin moron.

 

[bacon]

He's a bowflex salesman

 

[Universal]

He's a bowflex salesman

LOL
That's gold man.

 

[bacon]

Next time someone asks you to point to your stabilizer muscles, point to your entire mid-section.

 

[Ted-P]

Next time someone asks you to point to your stabilizer muscles, point to your entire mid-section.

It can any muscle depends on what movement.

 

[rickdog]

For people like that, the best response is to cite as many studies as you can so their perceived "superiority" is shot down.

I suggest this: http://www.usa-gymnastics.org/publications/technique/1996/8/strength-training.html

Plenty of studies cited there.

That is a very good sight that EEG pointed out. Use it. There is really no reasonable way to refute those studies, atleast that I am aware of.

 

[fat_wilhelm]

Why would Soloflex, a machine that has a set path of movement, create the idea of stabilizer muscles as a marketing ploy.

First, punch this guy in the teeth. Then, tell him that stabilizers shouldn't be thought of as a specific muscle. If you're doing overhead presses, stabilizers are the legs, core, lower back -- anything that keeps you standing and balanced. Of course, judging by his first response, he'll probably pull out his chart of skeletal muscles and ask you to point to your core, to which you respond with another punch to the teeth.

The rest of the crap about rep count is a bunch of B.S., too, as you well know. The more I think about it, you may be better off if you just don't respond at all. You can tell from his post that he's too arrogant to open his eyes, so it's probably hopeless. Let him keep grinding the Nautilus w/ his Commonwealth brethren.

http://www.topendsports.com/fitness/equip-freeweights.htm

(Disregard that the article uses a bicep curl as their example.)

 

[threelions]

Thanks people.

I've pm'd the Jarfi routine i have to those who asked and the people that teach at the MMA gym i go to are part of the GB Freestyle Wrestling Olympic Team.

I'll report back if he comes back, ive just given him a run down on the basics and have stored all the links if he comes back with anything.

This is why i rarely bother saying anything workout related on a non workout forum. All i did was give a guy some decent advice and just because it disagreed with this lycra wearing ego maniac he went on a rant, if it wasnt a site i have personal friends on i wouldnt bother with it.

Once again cheers.

 

[bacon]

Thanks people.

I've pm'd the Jarfi routine i have to those who asked and the people that teach at the MMA gym i go to are part of the GB Freestyle Wrestling Olympic Team.

I'll report back if he comes back, ive just given him a run down on the basics and have stored all the links if he comes back with anything.

This is why i rarely bother saying anything workout related on a non workout forum. All i did was give a guy some decent advice and just because it disagreed with this lycra wearing ego maniac he went on a rant, if it wasnt a site i have personal friends on i wouldnt bother with it.

Once again cheers.

There are two types of people: Those that insist they know it all and those that realize that we're all still learning, regardless of the subject. Stay open minded and try to learn from everyone, even if it's only what NOT to do. Good luck with the debate

 

[-V-MuayThai-V-]

Thanks people.

I've pm'd the Jarfi routine i have to those who asked and the people that teach at the MMA gym i go to are part of the GB Freestyle Wrestling Olympic Team.

I'll report back if he comes back, ive just given him a run down on the basics and have stored all the links if he comes back with anything.

This is why i rarely bother saying anything workout related on a non workout forum. All i did was give a guy some decent advice and just because it disagreed with this lycra wearing ego maniac he went on a rant, if it wasnt a site i have personal friends on i wouldnt bother with it.

Once again cheers.

Can you send me the Jarfi routine also?

 

[threelions]

Quick one anyone got any links to good articles on CNS and how over training effects it?