Am I the only one who thinks competitions are worthless?

[bradlabo]

Thanks for your response. Of course no one is forcing me, but I want to understand the concept of competition under these rules for myself, because as I've already stated, I do in fact want to compete more often. It's just that it feels like I'm paying money for nothing. I don't feel that I'm actually learning anything from these experiences, whether I win or lose.

When I win, I feel like I didn't do anything to deserve the win. Basically it's the other guy defeating himself under this point system by going to his back and pulling guard for example, and sometimes I'll get points for a "take down" and if the match doesn't progress past that it feels like a cheap win. Otherwise had I engaged more and tried to pass, I probably would've gotten choked up or submitted in the other guy's much more technical guard. Yet, I still won under the point system and I am the much more horrible BJJ practitioner lol.

My suggestion is learn how to break guard... My guess is you are a whiteblet and there is rarely any slow matches unless you get caught in guard. You don't understand the concepts enough to have an answer for everything your opponent is doing so more than likely you end up doing something stupid, and that is one way to learn.

It sucks that when you win you feel like you don't deserve it, meanwhile you won because you stopped your opponent from imposing his will. I'll take that any day.

 

[DivinusVox]

Thanks for your response. Of course no one is forcing me, but I want to understand the concept of competition under these rules for myself, because as I've already stated, I do in fact want to compete more often. It's just that it feels like I'm paying money for nothing. I don't feel that I'm actually learning anything from these experiences, whether I win or lose.

When I win, I feel like I didn't do anything to deserve the win. Basically it's the other guy defeating himself under this point system by going to his back and pulling guard for example, and sometimes I'll get points for a "take down" and if the match doesn't progress past that it feels like a cheap win. Otherwise had I engaged more and tried to pass, I probably would've gotten choked up or submitted in the other guy's much more technical guard. Yet, I still won under the point system and I am the much more horrible BJJ practitioner lol.

You should try a sub only tournament. Great fun to be had.

 

[bradlabo]

Please refer to post #37.

Great response to my post. You are a troll.

 

[He Man]

You say you think it's worthless in the thread title. Points are based on dominating positions. Takedowns mount and side control are worthless? No immobilizations are part of jiu jitsu too. Not just subs.

Yeah but in my example that I gave in one of my comps, the guy pulled guard and didn't really try anything. I couldn't really pass his guard either, but they gave me the win 2-0 and called his guard pull a "takedown" for me. So I didn't really win, the other guy just defeated himself. He was the much better grappler for sure yet he still lost. At the end of the day, this doesn't mean that I'm a better grappler, not by a long shot. It just means I didn't engage much. Idk this troubles me.

 

[snoop dogg***]

So I didn't really win, the other guy just defeated himself. He was the much better grappler for sure yet he still lost. At the end of the day, this doesn't mean that I'm a better grappler, not by a long shot. It just means I didn't engage much. Idk this troubles me.

sounds like a boring match. But still comp jiu jitsu isn't worthless because you beat a guy 2-0 he man

 

[mixmaster staph]

Despite this being a bread roll, I hate standard competition rules with a magnificent passion.

 

[neutralmilkh]

I really like the submission only based tournaments.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

That means Ryron's defense and escapes were better than Andre's offense and positional dominance - in other words Ryron is just better. Towards the end Andre was stalling out and super gassed. I'm sure he would've been submitted had the match lasted another 5 minutes.

You have to be a shill or a worshiper of Ryron to think this. It's much easier to protect yourself from submissions than it is to engage in them successfully against a resisting opponent.

Seriously, Ryron got controlled and passed repeatedly. He tried one lousy submission attempt.

Now, I'm not saying that Ryron is crap. He's very good, but you're just showing either your ignorance or your bias here.

(You're also letting the cat out of the bag. You allege to know nothing about grappling and then say this crap.....something that wouldn't even be articulable by someone that didn't study grappling.)

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

I'm not exactly saying that it is worthless, I'm saying I feel like it is. At least the point system, which proves nothing at the end of the day, as far as I can tell.

And the truth becomes clear.

You're more than the average troll. This is a troll with a purpose.

You are shilling for this submissions only concept pretty much.

I'll agree, I enjoyed the Metamoris matches a lot, but I don't think that they should replace or invalidate the entire point system of BJJ. The idea is to reward reaching positions and accomplishing things that would be beneficial in a self-defense situation, absent submissions.

It's good to get passed guard, to knee on belly, to mount or taking someone's back. It's better to finish, but not necessary in a self-defense situation at all. (Isn't this what the Gracies preach all the time....self-defense?)

From mount, even a bad puncher is a bad ass due to gravity, leverage, a stationary (or much more stationary target), help from the ground (hitting the back of their head) and the fact that they can't punch you back.

 

[He Man]

And the truth becomes clear.

You're more than the average troll. This is a troll with a purpose.

You are shilling for this submissions only concept pretty much.

I'll agree, I enjoyed the Metamoris matches a lot, but I don't think that they should replace or invalidate the entire point system of BJJ. The idea is to reward reaching positions and accomplishing things that would be beneficial in a self-defense situation, absent submissions.

It's good to get passed guard, to knee on belly, to mount or taking someone's back. It's better to finish, but not necessary in a self-defense situation at all. (Isn't this what the Gracies preach all the time....self-defense?)

From mount, even a bad puncher is a bad ass due to gravity, leverage, a stationary (or much more stationary target), help from the ground (hitting the back of their head) and the fact that they can't punch you back.

The points were meant to reward improving positions, dominance, and would be beneficial in a self-defense aspect as well, if there wasn't a hole in the system and if people didn't exploit that hole.

Two people not improving position, not going for position, and winning by a ref's call (as in a match I saw and personally in a match I was in and won and feel I didn't win) isn't good for self-defense, BJJ, or learning. I'm not sure if it's even grappling

 

[He Man]

(You're also letting the cat out of the bag. You allege to know nothing about grappling and then say this crap.....something that wouldn't even be articulable by someone that didn't study grappling.)

I never claimed to know nothing about grappling, everyone else did. Everyone put words in my mouth, I didn't bother to correct them. It's not all that far from the truth though anyway, I'm terrible and I'm not sure I'm looking at things from the right perspective is all.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

The points were meant to reward improving positions, dominance, and would be beneficial in a self-defense aspect as well, if there wasn't a hole in the system and if people didn't exploit that hole.

Two people not improving position, not going for position, and winning by a ref's call (as in a match I saw and personally in a match I was in and won and feel I didn't win) isn't good for self-defense, BJJ, or learning. I'm not sure if it's even grappling

This doesn't make the entire system worthless. They'll move beyond 50/50 and into whatever is next. It will keep progressing and rules will change to keep the sport moving in the right direction.

Furthermore, you rarely see that sort of game being played at lower levels. Those matches are much more dynamic.

In the black belt divisions, in championship rounds, you are seeing the top athletes in the world in their sport, both physically and mentally, cancelling each other out. Even the slightest error can mean the difference between winning and losing.

Some people really like that sort of match. Others like a wide open match. Thankfully, there is enough variety in BJJ that in any given tournament, you'll have all sorts of different types of matches.

You continue to harp on individual matches, but I simply do not see this as a reality across the entire plane of competition.

 

[He Man]

You continue to harp on individual matches, but I simply do not see this as a reality across the entire plane of competition.

This is probably what it starts to boil down to. I'm not entirely sure (and I hope it isn't) that it is a reality across the entire plane of BJJ competition.

As it pertains to me and in my experience, in so far, it has been this way with me and these types of wins make up the majority of the matches I've had or the matches I've seen and so far I'm not that impressed with these types of matches/wins in my (limited) BJJ journey.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

This is probably what it starts to boil down to. I'm not entirely sure (and I hope it isn't) that it is a reality across the entire plane of BJJ competition.

As it pertains to me and in my experience, in so far, it has been this way with me and these types of wins make up the majority of the matches I've had or the matches I've seen and so far I'm not that impressed with these types of matches/wins in my (limited) BJJ journey.

Then leave. We don't need you. I'm not going to argue you into enjoying the journey and while I couldn't dream of doing anything else with my time now, I don't have this belief that everyone must do it.

Go find something else that fulfills your dreams and impresses you, rather than trying to dick around with something that we like.

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but we're not going to change the entire competition scheme so that you can finally enjoy it.

Seriously, bye.

(Or you can do the submission only tournaments. They are out there and don't require you whining here to get into one).

 

[TheSubmissionCh]

There are very few submission only format competitions out there to be honest. But you can treat every match like a sub only; go for broke all the time. If you will be doing so, let me know so I can capture all of your matches since someone is probably going to get submitted (either you or your foe). - E

 

[He Man]

Then leave. We don't need you. I'm not going to argue you into enjoying the journey and while I couldn't dream of doing anything else with my time now, I don't have this belief that everyone must do it.

Go find something else that fulfills your dreams and impresses you, rather than trying to dick around with something that we like.

I'm not trying to be a dick here, but we're not going to change the entire competition scheme so that you can finally enjoy it.

Seriously, bye.

(Or you can do the submission only tournaments. They are out there and don't require you whining here to get into one).

I didn't mean to offend anyone or belittle any success people have had in competitions if they've won that way, it just doesn't seem genuine, at least for me. I feel the best about my wins when I've worked hard and earned them in a match (that doesn't necessarily mean it was won by submission only).

Is it safe to say I'm pretty much spot-on about how the majority of BJJ matches are won then and what it takes (or lack thereof) to win? If that is the case then BJJ, or at least IBJJF ruled competitions probably aren't for me.

 

[mr violent]

I didn't mean to offend anyone or belittle any success people have had in competitions if they've won that way, it just doesn't seem genuine, at least for me. I feel the best about my wins when I've worked hard and earned them in a match (that doesn't necessarily mean it was won by submission only).

Is it safe to say I'm pretty much spot-on about how the majority of BJJ matches are won then and what it takes (or lack thereof) to win? If that is the case then BJJ, or at least IBJJF ruled competitions probably aren't for me.

my question is why are you saying that the way ibjjf tourneys are scored is pointless, but use metamoris (which was sub-only, and not using ibjjf rules) as your example?

also, if you don't like competing, then don't. good riddance. i'd rather not have to be near someone in the bullpen who doesn't want to be there.

 

[He Man]

my question is why are you saying that the way ibjjf tourneys are scored is pointless, but use metamoris (which was sub-only, and not using ibjjf rules) as your example?

Well for two reasons. One, it shows (at least for me in my limited BJJ knowledge and what I perceive happens/happened) that Galvao is used to winning a lot on points and by exploitation of the points system, but that didn't necessarily translate well or translate to a win in this particular situation in the Metamoris event. But secondly, since points weren't a factor or concern it seemed like people moved more and fought harder, I thought all the matches turned out to be really exciting too.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Well for two reasons. One, it shows (at least for me in my limited BJJ knowledge and what I perceive happens/happened) that Galvao is used to winning a lot on points and by exploitation of the points system, but that didn't necessarily translate well or translate to a win in this particular situation in the Metamoris event. But secondly, since points weren't a factor or concern it seemed like people moved more and fought harder, I thought all the matches turned out to be really exciting too.

I think the people they invited to Metamoris were action fighters. Kron, Dean Lister, Xande, Roger, Buchecha, Galvao, etc are all known for having exciting matches and finishing fights. I think Galvao was trying to submit Ryron as hard as he could, but if your opponent is pretty good (which Ryron is) and is just trying to not get tapped, it's pretty hard to tap him. It was always going to be really hard for Andre to win that fight because Ryron was never going to take any chances to try and catch Andre...he was only trying to survive.

I think if you just watch finals matches too you get a warped sense of what tournament BJJ really looks like. Finals are where skill is the closest between competitors, and they both have the most to lose. In earlier rounds you typically see a little bigger skill gap giving rise to more action fights and more subs. Though personally, I think most BJJ matches have periods of high action and an all-stall type match is the exception, not the rule.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

I didn't mean to offend anyone or belittle any success people have had in competitions if they've won that way, it just doesn't seem genuine, at least for me. I feel the best about my wins when I've worked hard and earned them in a match (that doesn't necessarily mean it was won by submission only).

Is it safe to say I'm pretty much spot-on about how the majority of BJJ matches are won then and what it takes (or lack thereof) to win? If that is the case then BJJ, or at least IBJJF ruled competitions probably aren't for me.

No, it is not safe to say that. I completely disagree with your assessment.

I simply don't care what you think. IBJJF rules may certainly not be for you.

Adios.