Am I the only one who thinks competitions are worthless?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by He Man, Jan 12, 2013.

  1. He Man

    He Man Orange Belt

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    Or at least the IBJJF rules of competition?

    I was watching a few matches the other day on YouTube with all of the well-known guys, the guys who dedicate their entire lives to jiu jitsu and train every day, multiple times a day, and that's all they ever do. I wasn't impressed with any of the performances. I saw one guy chill and stall out in 50/50 guard and another guy never passing. Nothing was happening. The guy on top never passed but won and then proceeded to cheer and fistpump like he achieved something huge and like he even did anything at all, when in reality he didn't do a damn thing. People dedicate their lives for performances like these? Performances and matches that don't pay anything, mind you. Seems like a lot of sacrifice and not a whole lot of pay off. It seems the only pay off would be for bragging rights and the ego.

    I feel like these type of matches don't prove who's more skilled or who's better, it just proves who's more skilled in exploiting the holes in the scoring system. I feel like any number of recreational grapplers I've seen who treat this as a hobby could have done the exact same thing that I saw in that match.

    If I'm at all looking at competition the wrong way, I'd like to hear your what you guys think.
     
  2. notafighter86

    notafighter86 Blue Belt

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    I certainly don't consider BJJ a spectator sport.
     
  3. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    In short, they couldn't. The reason you see a lot of high profile matches stall out is because both guys aren't giving an inch and not much happens.
     
  4. seatea

    seatea Black Belt

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    There are boring fighters and there are exciting fighters, same in MMA, judo, boxing etc.

    Watch some Marcelo Garcia.
     
  5. ozyabbas

    ozyabbas Purple Belt

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    I can't be bothered to write why but trust me when I say that pretty much everything you have written is wrong. Very, very, very, very wrong.

    Train some bjj for a few months, compete in a few tournaments and then you may have something worth reading.

    I am not trying to be rude.
     
  6. taylonr

    taylonr White Belt

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    Let me play devil's advocate here. If these were two top guys then isn't the ability to neutralize another player's attack worthwhile?

    To me, it's as if an NFL playoff game with no turnovers and no 3-and-outs ended 3-0. Just because it doesn't end 55-49 doesn't mean it's not a good game. In fact, that might mean it's a bad game because neither team could stop the other guy.

    So too with BJJ. You're able to get a couple points (maybe literally 2 points) AND keep your opponent from getting any points. That means no passes, no dominate positions, no takedowns -- nothing.

    I'd say if it was on the street and you weren't able to break the guy's arm, but you also made sure he did NO damage to you, that's a win. It's defending yourself. Would it be better to immobilize him? Sure, but if you survive unscathed that's good too.
     
  7. cms9690

    cms9690 Green Belt

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    It's a game of chess with thousands of pieces and when you're at a high level of competition, you will find a lot of stalemates. It's not because they're bad, but like others have said: neither of them want to give an inch.

    But even if they are "exploiting" holes in the system, they're f*cking winning.
     
  8. He Man

    He Man Orange Belt

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    I'm well aware of the visual non-spectacularity of the sport. I know in competitions you have to do things a certain way just to get the job done without much concern for how exciting the match looks visually. That's not really my gripe although it may seem like it.

    It's just that nothing happened and nobody took any chances. These guys train all day every day, why not take chances? In fact if you train that much, why is it even considered "taking a chance?" Would it give one of the competitors that much space to finish a sweep or let the guy on top pass? If that happened then we'd see who the superior grappler is, at least positionally for that moment. If the guy on top passed, is the guy on bottom really that insecure in his game that he believes he wouldn't be able to escape and vice versa?

    Just some of the thoughts that ran through my head as I watched.
     
  9. bradlabo

    bradlabo Green Belt

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    After reading your posts I have come to the conclusion that you do not "get" jiu jitsu at all.
     
  10. taylonr

    taylonr White Belt

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    Why should the guy who won take a chance? I can see the guys losing trying something crazy with less than a minute left, but if you're winning, do whatever it takes to win.
     
  11. anaconda

    anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    You're right. You find it boring to watch so therefore it must be worthless.

    How long have you been training? The more you know the better you will appreciate it. Competition is two guys that trained very hard trying to impose their game plan on one another. Whomever is better able to impose his game plan will win.
     
  12. He Man

    He Man Orange Belt

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    Eh I guess one match that comes to mind is the more recent Ryron vs Galvao.

    At first glance it looks like Andre completely creams Ryron, but taking into account that Ryron hasn't competed in at least 10 years, escaped everything Galvao threw at him, never got submitted, and if the fight were longer I believe would've inevitably ended with Galvao being submitted. Ryron "took chances."

    Clearly this displays who the better grappler that day was (Ryron).

    This is somewhat of an example of how I feel. Andre dedicates his life to BJJ, conditioning, winning, all that stuff. Ryron doesn't seem to take it to that level, but still toys with Andre.
     
  13. He Man

    He Man Orange Belt

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    I agree, I was referring to the guy who would be losing. But nothing happened, they both stayed that way the whole time lol.
     
  14. He Man

    He Man Orange Belt

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    Admittedly I don't, that's why I created this thread to see it from a different perspective.
     
  15. He Man

    He Man Orange Belt

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    Nah I feel it doesn't prove who the superior, more skilled grappler is. I think out of the more "exciting" matches I saw, the matches were won based on atheleticism more than anything. In that case, the better athelete won, not the better grappler.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  16. Alex88

    Alex88 Brown Belt

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    I see what you did there. Slick , very slick. Ts is a troll guys.
     
  17. ajf

    ajf Orange Belt

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    As a sport it's absolutely the same as watching the defensive shift that teams take in the Stanley Cup final or in the Super Bowl. Two very good teams facing each other in an elimination tournament are naturally inclined to limit risk and play their strengths. This is especially true in the final round.

    I agree that offensive and aggressive Brazilian Jiujitsu (or hockey or football) is much more interesting to the average spectator than defensive minded playing. If you add a technical understanding and emotional investment, people generally become just as interested in watching the opposing team/player fail as they are in watching their team/player succeed.

    That said I can't stand to watch any brown or black belt match where people start playing super defensively unless guys I have trained with and learned from are involved.
     
  18. He Man

    He Man Orange Belt

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    Um how? This is a legitimate problem I have with the idea of competition. If you would be kind enough to explain where my problem lies I'd be more than thankful.

    Also, I would like to compete. But it feels like I would be wasting my time under these kind of rules.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  19. seatea

    seatea Black Belt

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    You be trollin' us son?
     
  20. Jagcorps_esq

    Jagcorps_esq Red Belt

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    Ryron did not TOY with Andre.

    He survived and that's it.

    That being said, I totally get that some matches are pretty boring for non-grapplers and even some grapplers. I hate watching leg spaghetti.

    But to say that that is all that is happening in matches any more is ridiculous. There are plenty of matches that look NOTHING like that, with lots of action.

    Heck, the Roger v. Buchecha match from the same competition as Ryron v. Andre was an exceptional match (admittedly, in a submission only tournament).
     

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