All Time rankings - Top 30 for each Division

[Harlekin]

Achievement wise this is a great list.

I personally prefer skill lists though.

 

[zec1234]

Good work, TS. Always quality stuff and I appreciate the effort. Funaki at the 7 spot on LHW is surprising but I guess he got the head-start with Pancrase back in the day

Yes exactly. We have to look at the whole MMA history, not just last 10 or 15 years.
In period 1994 - 1998 Funaki was always ranked in top 5 P4P.
Wins over Bas Rutten, Ken Shamrock, Frank Shamrock, Guy Mezger, Semmy Schilt

Here is his Historical graph:

 

[zec1234]

Good list, probably lots of work. I agree with most (or see the reason why). Miletich at #22 is a rough look tho.

Thanks.
Pat Miletich was top WW when this division had no depth. We have him #1 WW for the first time mid 1996. At that time he was ranked just #17 P4P. That is because he had no opponents that you would recognize.
Later when Pat became UFC champion, he was behind Hayato Sakurai in WW rankings.
When he started fighting outside of US (1999/2000), he would often lose (Jutaro Nakao, Kiyoshi Tamura, Jose Landi-Jons).
His productive MMA career lasted just 7 years (stopped fighting in 2002). Last two fights were in 2006 and 2008 and they were more shows than high level fights.

 

[jarj]

It is there. You can see topRkP4P and topRkCtg

that's a top ranking, I mean a peak ATT rating

 

[zec1234]

that's a top ranking, I mean a peak ATT rating

ATT (All Time Total) score is not changing radically and is mostly going up. So there are no peeks.
Current Score (CS) can have a lot of peeks.

In another thread Distinction between All Time Ranking and Current Ranking
I explained the differences between two main scores that are calculated for each fighter - All Time Total and Current Score.

All Time Total score (ATT) is a calculated value that describes fighter's achievements in his overall MMA career.
ATT number is used to determine fighter's position on the All Time ranking list.
This value rarely goes down. When fighter's career is finished this number stays unchanged.
Right now, maximum ATT value is just below 2400.

Current Score (CS) is calculated each week to describe fighter's results at that point in time.
This is very volatile and time sensitive number. More recent fights are valued more. Long inactivity decreases this score.
In theory, CurrScore value can go over 1000 points, but no fighter since 1993 was able to go over 1000.

To see how those two numbers change in time here are career numbers for Fedor Emelianenko.

 

[jarj]

ATT (All Time Total) score is not changing radically and is mostly going up. So there are no peeks.
Current Score (CS) can have a lot of peeks.

In another thread Distinction between All Time Ranking and Current Ranking
I explained the differences between two main scores that are calculated for each fighter - All Time Total and Current Score.

All Time Total score (ATT) is a calculated value that describes fighter's achievements in his overall MMA career.
ATT number is used to determine fighter's position on the All Time ranking list.
This value rarely goes down. When fighter's career is finished this number stays unchanged.
Right now, maximum ATT value is just below 2400.

Current Score (CS) is calculated each week to describe fighter's results at that point in time.
This is very volatile and time sensitive number. More recent fights are valued more. Long inactivity decreases this score.
In theory, CurrScore value can go over 1000 points, but no fighter since 1993 was able to go over 1000.

To see how those two numbers change in time here are career numbers for Fedor Emelianenko.

Thanks for the info, how about peak CS then? Is it so volatile that it has no meaning, or would it?

 

[Prime Ang]

This is awesome fucking stuff

 

[zec1234]

Thanks for the info, how about peak CS then? Is it so volatile that it has no meaning, or would it?

Historical Current Score is recorded for each quarter end. Then those historical CS are used to calculate All Time Total.
Highest CS tells us how dominant somebody was at some point in time.

For example, in 2005 Fedor had 948 CS points and was #1 HW and #1 P4P fighter.
At that same time #2 P4P was Mauricio Rua with CS=880. That difference of 68 points shows Fedor as a very dominant best P4P.
#2 HW at that time was Mirko Filipovic with CS=758. So, that difference (190=948-758) shows extreme Fedor’s dominance in HW division. Nobody was even close.

If you look at Present (Aug 2016) CS, you will see that there is less dominance than in 2005.
#1 P4P Demetrious Johnson with CS(Aug 2016)=926.2 has less than 3 points advantage over #2 Jon Jones CS(Aug 2016)=923.9
New HW champion Stipe Miocic (CS=853) has a good lead, but not dominant over #2 HW Alistair Overeem (CS=820).

You became dominant by beating all your competition and getting very high CS.
That high CS will then improve your All Time much more than just being barely ahead.

Hope that helps.

 

[Mamou]

Wsnderlei #2 all time at lhw is most FUNNIEST AND RIDICULOUS placing ive ever seen.....EVA

I Stopped there.
Just one mans opinion.

Who should be ahead of him? Where do you think he belongs on that list?

 

[qw3rty]

Great work as always
The only thing that looks weird to me is that Marlon Moraes is not even top 30 in the BW List
Dudu Dantas is pretty low too, even more than Galvao, kinda crazy

 

[zec1234]

Great work as always
The only thing that looks weird to me is that Marlon Moraes is not even top 30 in the BW List
Dudu Dantas is pretty low too, even more than Galvao, kinda crazy

Thanks a lot.
Fact that you are commenting BW division and fighters in other organizations, shows a lot about your MMA knowledge.
People typically talk just about top divisions and top UFC/Pride fighters.
I think that is why you like our approach to scoring and ranking – all fighters are treated equally.

Now about BW All Time rankings.
Marlon Moraes started fighting in 2007, but he didn’t have any good opponents until he moved to US in 2011.
His first big win was Miguel Torres, and that was when Torres was already on the downturn.
Even in WSOF he is not really challenged. Highest opponent was Josh Hill, and Josh was never in top 50 BW.
So, for Marlon it is time to move to the big league. Or at least to Bellator where there are some higher ranked BW. You will probably see him very soon in top 30 BW All Time.

BW is relatively new division outside of Japan. For a long time (until 2007) best BW where in Shooto.
Shooto is where Marcos Galvao started his MMA career in 2003. Galvao had some decent wins and high profile BW fights. But other than second fight with Joe Warren, he was never able to win big fights.

Eduardo Dantas has a similar MMA story like Moraes. Started in 2007 with Shooto Brazil, and in 2011 move to US. But he moved to stronger organization and that is why he is already in top 30.
It takes time (years of fighting) to go up on All Time list. Dantas is now on the top of Bellator BW division and he will move up quickly in All Time rankings.

 

[zec1234]

Next table shows Present MMA All Time P4P ranking.
P4P here means just that all fighters (from all divisions) are combined into one list.
This ranking is based on AllTimeTotal (ATT) score which is a number that describes fighter's overall career MMA achievements.

When I said “Present All Time P4P ranking” that means ranking at this moment, and it will change in the future.
Old fighters that retired will not increase their ATT score, but current top fighters can go up rapidly.

GSP and Anderson are almost tied for #1 spot.
Fedor will probably stay #3 unless miraculously manages to defeats two more high level opponents.
Aldo and Jon Jones recently passed Big Nog. They might need another two years to possibly pass Fedor.
Dan Henderson was given a big chance to become UFC champion and he might pass Big Nog.
DJ is right now ranked #15 P4P All Time. But since he is #1 on Current ranking, he will move up very quickly on All Time list. DJ and JBJ are only top 20 fighters with less than 10 years of MMA experience.

 

[Pem123]

i had few problem with WW and BW.

no wonderboy and no Marlon moraes.

awesome list though, good job.

 

[zec1234]

i had few problem with WW and BW.
no wonderboy and no Marlon moraes.
awesome list though, good job.

Thanks. And good questions. I already gave my view on Marlon Moraes (3 posts up).

Believe it or not Stephen Thompson is ranked #31 and that is why you don’t see him on top 30 WW list.
He is relatively new (started MMA in 2010) and there are so many good WW with much more MMA experience.
Being ranked #2 WW in the Current rankings, in the next quarter he should get enough new ATT points (based on current ranking) to pass Carlos Newton.

 

[RJ43]

How many people work on these lists? Have you ever tried to shop the process to a website or anything? Even if it hasn't been properly vetted I don't think I've ever seen close to this amount of effort put into compiling an all-time objective ranking system like this.

 

[Happiness]

Great work. I'll bookmark for reference.

 

[Happiness]

Just out of curiosity (I haven't examined your method) did you consider a retrospectively applied ELO system? Sample sizes too small?

 

[zec1234]

How many people work on these lists? Have you ever tried to shop the process to a website or anything? Even if it hasn't been properly vetted I don't think I've ever seen close to this amount of effort put into compiling an all-time objective ranking system like this.

We are developing this system since 2009. Because all work is voluntary, people are constantly coming and leaving.
Our algorithms are based on the rules that were defined by multiple sources (including opinion of Forum members).
So, rules are created based on opinion of people, but everything else is computer calculated and unbiased.

I was contacted by several websites, but they want to have ownership. Basically to give them my whole database and algorithms for cheap.
If you or somebody you know, wants to use my resulting lists and analysis, you are free to do so.
You can check my website to see all the analysis we are offering. And thanks for showing interest.

 

[zec1234]

Just out of curiosity (I haven't examined your method) did you consider a retrospectively applied ELO system? Sample sizes too small?

You are exactly right, MMA sample (fights per year) is too small. We tried ELO in 2008/2009, but it didn’t work.

 

[zec1234]

For those that want to see how All Time Total score was changing historically for top 8 All Time fighters:

Up to end of 2012, Fedor was ranked #1 P4P All Time fighter.
That is when Anderson Silva took over and then GSP.
We don’t know how will this GOAT race finish.
Will Anderson be able to get one more big win to pass GSP?
Will GSP return and keep his #1 spot.

Two lines that are growing very fast are Aldo and Jones.
Aldo started earlier, but JBJ raise was a bit faster.
How much up can they go?