All Time GOAT poll

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Tachy, Feb 23, 2019.

?

Who is the current GOAT

  1. GSP

    35.7%
  2. Fedor

    27.2%
  3. Silva

    8.6%
  4. Jones

    22.1%
  5. Johnson

    1.4%
  6. Other

    3.8%
  7. Aldo

    1.2%
  1. AnotherOldGuy

    AnotherOldGuy Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    3,128
    Likes Received:
    2,179
    Sure, just like Trevor Berbick beat prime Muhammad Ali. And Chonan beat prime Anderson. And Serra beat prime GSP.

    Because on Sherdog you are prime from the day you're born to the day you die.
     
    Typrune Goatley likes this.
  2. krakatit

    krakatit White Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    17
    Sorry but Jones is not only a multiple doper but his skill set is nowhere near HW division dudes, not in PRIDE not in K1, Bellator (very underated competiotion) and not even in UFC.Had he fought in WH divisions he would have get smashed to dust regularly. He never fought any real, accomplished fighters, which 100% disqualifies him from GOAT debate... not to mention multiper doper... again. No serious expert or fan would even think about Jones and vast majority actually dont. Its just some biased Jones drones, desperate for arguments that are simply not there.
    Also please read the study I posted like two pages ago about how much do steroids improve your performance.Its insane ... between 40-70% which is not surprising to anybody who used to take them
     
    Typrune Goatley likes this.
  3. Make Sherdog Great Again

    Make Sherdog Great Again #MAGA

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    656
    Location:
    MAGA Country
    Lol no, on Sherdog you're in your prime until you start losing if your name is Fedor.

    Fedor ballsniffers when Fedor is winning: Fedor is so amazing he's the least hit fighter in the history of MMA!

    Fedor ballsniffers the moment Fedor starts losing: Fedor isn't in his prime anymore due to SO MANY WARS!
     
  4. Mike

    Mike RIP Frankie

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,726
    Likes Received:
    34,343
    Location:
    Don't Give Up!
    That isn't true though. Talk of decline started after Arlovski and continued after the Rogers fight. You can be declining but still win fights.

    GSP defended three times after acl injuries but looked much slower and had worse cardio.
     
  5. AnotherOldGuy

    AnotherOldGuy Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    3,128
    Likes Received:
    2,179
    People were pointing out Fedor was out of his prime back in 2007 with his fight against Hunt (which he won). Of course you had to be watching MMA back then to know it.

    But no fans admit their fighter lost in their prime. Anderson lost to Chonan, so fans said he wasn't in his prime. GSP lost to Hughes and Serra, so not in his prime. When Jones eventually loses it'll be because he wasn't in his prime.

    And actually, athletic prime rarely lasts even four years. Its why less than 1% of Olympic gold medal winners can repeat (Olympics are every four years, so by Sherdog standards every Olympic gold medal winner should win gold medals in at least two and probably three consecutive Olympics), its why so few NBA MVP's can repeat and so on.
     
  6. Judge Lance Ito

    Judge Lance Ito Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    2,712
    Location:
    Cork, Ireland
    Rumble Johnson?
     
  7. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    27,696
    Likes Received:
    8,237
    in the mma world he's taken very seriously and seen as the best fighter in the world. you're confusing sherdog with the mma world.......
     
  8. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    27,696
    Likes Received:
    8,237
    this is awful on so many levels....
     
  9. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    27,696
    Likes Received:
    8,237
    and there's declining because you're not applying yourself the same way and declining because you got old. or even declining because for a particular fight you weren't at your best for whatever reason. or because others around you are improving. with fedor it's debatable what the catalyst was and likely a combination. tyson wasn't in his prime when he lost as well. but it obviously wasn't because of a physical drop in capacity.
     
    Mike likes this.
  10. Mike

    Mike RIP Frankie

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,726
    Likes Received:
    34,343
    Location:
    Don't Give Up!
    Sure even at the time there were rumors he had gotten lazy and complacent with training. At the same time though, he was a small hw that relied on speed and reflexes.

    He was always going to start looking bad once his speed started to go.
     
  11. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    27,696
    Likes Received:
    8,237
    he didn't lose to werdum because his speed started to go though.....
     
  12. Mike

    Mike RIP Frankie

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    26,726
    Likes Received:
    34,343
    Location:
    Don't Give Up!
    Did I say somewhere that he did? He lost that fight because he was too aggressive. Around the Werdum fight he sudd3became a headhunter and stopped using his grappling or trying to set anything up.

    However even earlier than that, it was obvious he was slowing down. His own camp said so around the arlovski fight, and although he won vs arlovski and rogers he looked off.
     
  13. kflo

    kflo Steel Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2008
    Messages:
    27,696
    Likes Received:
    8,237
    i think it's overstated about headhunting. he was very methodical against aa and not overaggressive. against rogers he took the fight to the ground, and he did so against bigfoot too. werdum wasn't headhunting or not grappling.....
     
  14. AnotherOldGuy

    AnotherOldGuy Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    3,128
    Likes Received:
    2,179
    No, because his reflexes were slowing (they start slowing depressingly enough at age 13, and really start slowing after your early 20's).

    for instance:
    https://sites.google.com/site/1314s1p4g1/lab-1

    He famously got into trouble many times even in Pride, but was able to escape by reacting before his opponent could take complete control. By the time he fought Werdum his reflexes were already slow enough that he couldn't escape.

    Of course, just as the case with Roy Jones Jr, that is a pretty solid criticism against him -- an athlete in any sport who can't adjust for slowing reflexes is never going to have great longevity, given how inevitable and large the decrease is going to be for everyone once the early 20's is past.

    If you react much quicker than your opponent you get used to having a get out of jail free card, which can lead to sloppy technique. That seems to have happened with Fedor.
     
  15. MikeMcMann

    MikeMcMann Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    19,649
    Likes Received:
    23,959
    I haven't seen any GSP fans say he was not in his prime V Hughes or Serra. I am sure there might be the odd straggler but none of the main stream fans i know of.

    I am a huge GSP fan and know he was in his prime for both losses.

    Prime is not a singular point in time. It has an upcurve and down curve around a peak and his Hughes loss was on the upcurve, his Serra loss was near his peak.

    But I have yet to see an Anderson fan admit he was in his prime V Chonan or Takase (he was) and Fedor did not lose in what most hard core Fedor fans (I am one) considered his prime run before talk of him being out of prime was pretty common.
     
    Mike likes this.
  16. Orochimaru

    Orochimaru White Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    30
    yea in my opinion thats not a goat a goat fights any and everybody tyron was begging for the fight and gsp fought bisping instead because hes scared of tyrons power i feel the same about khabib hes scared to fight at welterweight becaus he knows what will happen to him
     
  17. MikeMcMann

    MikeMcMann Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    19,649
    Likes Received:
    23,959
    Ya that point does not hold up in my opinion.

    GSP is a retired ex champ.

    He has every right to take legacy and interest fights at that point and acting as if he has an obligation to simply fight at WW against the WW champ makes no sense. He gets far more legacy benefit fighting the MW and LW champs then the WW champ so why would he ignore that?

    Even existing CURRENT champs pick and advocate for the fights they think best build their legacy or bank account. Woodley did it when ACTUALLY champ. Anderson did it when ACTUALLY champ, and yet you guys are saying GSP coming out of retirement has an obligation to fight Woodley only and thn defend at WW only. That when one of the biggest complaints against him and his legacy was that he never TESTED himself at MW. Many were saying he needed to test himself at MW and take a fight, ANY fight.
     
    Callisto and Mike like this.
  18. Orochimaru

    Orochimaru White Belt

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    30
    dude he beat bisping and vacated the title and youre saying that thats fair if youre gonna vacate why even fight for it i like gsp but he took the bisping fight because he knew he could beat him he didnt want to defend the belt because he knew what the middleweight division would bring to him and thats the same for welterweight he knows damn well he cant beat tyron woodley well actually i take that back he has a chance but tyron hits hard he doesnt want that smoke stop being biased and clingy to your favorite fighter and think rationally and accept good points and facts.
     
  19. MikeMcMann

    MikeMcMann Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2015
    Messages:
    19,649
    Likes Received:
    23,959
    Ya i can't figure out what your point is.

    You are a retired ex champ. You are considering coming back and taking some interest and legacy fights. You have little interest in jumping back in to your old division because adding one more title there or one more defense there is just not that big for the legacy. Certainly nowhere near as big as being a 2 division champ or 3 division champ.

    You seem to be operating from the perspective that coming out of retirement GSP needs to look and say 'what is the toughest fight available and the one I am most likely to lose in' and take that fight in some type of attempt 'prove himself'. That would be foolish.

    GSP should be looking at which fight gives him the biggest legacy and money boost. He has nothing, NOTHING, to prove at WW. He is the WW GOAT. But for years people criticised him for not taking a fight , ANY FIGHT, at MW to test himself. Was Bisping opportunistic, sure. Not an expected easy fight for GSP by any means but better for him than any other top MW at the time, yes. Just as Anderson's fight versus Forrest was picked for the same reason. And GSP and his team saw how much credit Anderson got for 'moving up' and 'fighting an ex champ' and how that was used in GOAT and legacy talks to boost Anderson and to downplay GSP. yes it was smart for GSP to jump at that.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with any retired Champ coming out of retirement and cherry picking a few legacy and interest fights he is interested in. Nothing. And in fact its smart. And it is fine too if the org says NO as they did with the Khabib fight. If they both want it to happen then great. If not, fine.

    If Mayweather packs it in tomorrow and retires but over the next 5 years sees 3 new champs in divisions he has not fought in that he is willing to come out of retirement and fight, that is perfectly fine. The idea that NO he must fight only the best guy possible in divisions he already is GOAT of is kind of silly.
     
    Mike likes this.
  20. AnotherOldGuy

    AnotherOldGuy Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2015
    Messages:
    3,128
    Likes Received:
    2,179
    There are quite a few who say GSP was still learning when he lost to Hughes, and some (though fewer) who say it was also true for his loss against Serra.

    Some Fedor fans (including me) were pointing out he was already out of prime after his Hunt fight, and it was a common statement after the Arlovski fight.

    And yes, I don't think I've ever seen one of Anderson's fans say he was in his prime in his early losses.

    I agree prime isn't a single point, and deciding on what it means (is being at 99% still prime -- in that case Usain Bolt was still in his prime when he only came in 3rd in his last race)? The problem is that in high level sport the difference between the top ten is typically less than 1%, so what for most people would be an unnoticeable change is enough to make someone go from Olympic gold medalist or NBA MVP to someone who will never win another Olympic medal or NBA MVP.
     
    Future GOAT likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.