All Time GOAT poll

Make Sherdog Great Again said:
Prime Fedor got finished by Werdum.

Prime Fedor < all.
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Prime Muhammad Ali got beat by Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick -- because despite 95% of Olympic gold medal winners being under the age of 30, and 90% of NBA MVP's being under the age of 30, and every sporting physiology text saying athletic peak is in your mid-20's, age is still a number and you never really leave your prime, you just get exposed eventually.

I swear, I think half of Sherdog thinks you're still in your peak until you're 65 -- after all, there's a reason that's the official retirement age, and there's no reason it should be any different for sport than anything else, right?

The other thing that Sherdog knows that no one else knows is that everyone ages at the same rate. That's why everyone who dies from natural causes dies at the same age -- the rate of aging is a constant for all humans. Therefore if some fighters are still healthy at 35 or 40, then every fighter is still healthy at the age, and if they start losing its just because they were exposed.

Seriously, people who believe everyone ages at the same rate should talk to a doctor, or just visit an old folks home. They'll see very strange things, like some 90 year olds being fitter and healthier than some 60 year olds (impossible according to much of Sherdog, but somehow it still happens).
 
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AnotherOldGuy said:
According to Sherdog, you enter your prime at 25, and leave your prime at 50. So they definitely beat Prime Fedor.

And the really hardcore Sherdoggers will assure you that you're already in your prime by the time you're 18, and only leave it at 65. Because lets face it, if you're an adult of working age, you're in your prime.
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Prime fedor , to me, is his Prime fighting days.
 
iliketo1 said:
Prime fedor , to me, is his Prime fighting days.
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Not sure what you mean, in that it seems like a tautology, ie since prime means "at your best", you wrote the equivalent of "Fedor was at his best when he was at his best".
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
Not sure what you mean, in that it seems like a tautology, ie since prime means "at your best", you wrote the equivalent of "Fedor was at his best when he was at his best".
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Prime fighting days are the day s he spent fighting in the pride organization.
 
AnotherOldGuy said:
Prime Muhammad Ali got beat by Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick -- because despite 95% of Olympic gold medal winners being under the age of 30, and 90% of NBA MVP's being under the age of 30, and every sporting physiology text saying athletic peak is in your mid-20's, age is still a number and you never really leave your prime, you just get exposed eventually.

I swear, I think half of Sherdog thinks you're still in your peak until you're 65 -- after all, there's a reason that's the official retirement age, and there's no reason it should be any different for sport than anything else, right?

The other thing that Sherdog knows that no one else knows is that everyone ages at the same rate. That's why everyone who dies from natural causes dies at the same age -- the rate of aging is a constant for all humans. Therefore if some fighters are still healthy at 35 or 40, then every fighter is still healthy at the age, and if they start losing its just because they were exposed.

Seriously, people who believe everyone ages at the same rate should talk to a doctor, or just visit an old folks home. They'll see very strange things, like some 90 year olds being fitter and healthier than some 60 year olds (impossible according to much of Sherdog, but somehow it still happens).
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Interesting, but I think combat sports differ from most olympic sports, because experience plays a bigger part. How many UFC and boxing champs are there that are under 25?
 
iliketo1 said:
Prime fighting days are the day s he spent fighting in the pride organization.
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Prime on sherdog is also until a fighter loses. So in actuality no fighter has ever lost in their prime. And a fighter that has always & consistently lost never had a prime.
More studies need to go into why some fighters never experience a “prime”.
 
Clear Winner said:
Interesting, but I think combat sports differ from most olympic sports, because experience plays a bigger part. How many UFC and boxing champs are there that are under 25?
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Well, I'd say the amount of experience required to play top level in the big money sports (NBA, NFL, NHL, MLB, tennis, golf, FIFA) is a lot greater than in MMA because of the much higher level of competition. The difference between making a million a year and playing in the minor's is only a couple of percent - the top 1000 NBA players are much closer in ability than the top 10 UFC fighters. And those guys almost all peak in their mid-20's (that's where they put up their best stats, win MVP's etc).

Same for Olympic combat sports -- the experience to win Olympic medals in wrestling and judo is extremely high, because there are so many top level competitors. Again, most medals are in their late 20's.

The difference is that in most sports you start as a kid, so by the time you're a 25 year old playing in say the NBA, you've been playing basketball for 20 years (and with much better coaching than MMA fighters get).

In MMA many don't start until they're 20, though now many have done a different combat sport for a long time. The problem with that as far as athletic prime goes is that by 30 there's going to be a wide range in the trade-off between gaining experience and physical deterioration.

By 30 almost everyone has dropped off physically in many attributes. Reflexes famously start slowing in your late teens, recovery (how hard you train) and speed of muscle contraction (not the same as reflexes) in your mid-20's, stamina not until your 30's for most, strength not until you're 40's for most). But some will drop off far faster than others -- its the same reason some 90 year olds are in better shape than some 60 year olds.

And on top of that injuries (in MMA they come from training far more than actual fights, which tells me there's something wrong with how fighters train -- how long would an NFL coach last if it was common for his players to get injured in practice?).

And then there's motivation; the drive to fight is often driven by earning money (most MMA fighters go into it because they're not trained to make money doing anything else, though a few like Penn were born rich, and Franklin was a teacher etc). Once they make big money some never really train the same way again -- its a lot easier to push yourself if your bank account is empty than when there's a few million in it.

Which means longevity in MMA is as varied as in lifespan. People simply age at radically different rates -- any doctor will tell you that.
 
Intellidamus said:
Prime on sherdog is also until a fighter loses. So in actuality no fighter has ever lost in their prime. And a fighter that has always & consistently lost never had a prime.
More studies need to go into why some fighters never experience a “prime”.
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Prime in Sherdog also starts at age 20 and ends at age 65. Between those extremes the truth lies.

Though actually prime as as varied as anything else about human longevity -- some people live to 118, some people die as children. Physical prime varies among humans to a much greater extent than fans seem to realize. Two people can be the same age chronologically but be at much different ages physically. Every doctor knows this -- in fact its so obvious a doctor would think anyone who questioned it had lived an extremely sheltered life, but not many on Sherdog seem to realize it. Sherdog thinks two guys age say 30 will have the same physical age -- its hard to understand why they think that given a even a quick look around the world will show otherwise, but there you go.
 
Lentäjä said:
Physical prime =/= MMA fighting prime. These fighters keep on adding new things to their game and keep on developing and developing. It's the nature of the game, you have to constantly keep getting better or you're getting worse. This is what all the fighters keep on repeating.

MMA is so different from ball sports like American football or soccer or hockey where you start training when you're four years old and have received 10,000+ hours of practice in your mid-20s. And there are so many techniques and different elements to the MMA game and the sport is developing at a very fast rate. This applies to other sports too, but disproportionally to MMA.

That's why prime vs prime is no.1 bullshit.
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People clearly age at very different rates, learn skills at different times in their lives, have various mental ups and downs, injuries and so on, so yes, determining prime is hard, and definitely can't be based solely on chronological age.

Does that mean that every win and loss is identical? Should Trevor Berbick be considered to be better than Muhammad Ali because he beat him at the end of Ali's career? Your argument seems to suggest he should be, given it's "bullshit" to consider whether Ali was in his prime or not. If where a win or loss occurred in a fighter's arc is BS, then every win and loss is equally valid.
 
Well after last night I think there needs to be a new name added to this list, choo choo mutha fuckers.
 
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So the third best WW of all times,tied with BJ and well behind Matt Hughes #2 and Royce Gracie #1, is now supposed to be, the best ever...?Regardless of weight classes...?Dude fought one eye Bisping, in his only fight outside the WW division and got banged up pretty badly.... Fedor would molest Bisping even at the state that he is now. . de fuck,dudes? wakey wakey and smell thy coffee
 
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