All HW champions fights - who are the greatest MMA HW champions?

[McDego]

Nice work.

Fedor is #1 for now. If Cain comes back, wins the belt back and defends for a couple more years, I could see him getting there.

#2 can go to Nog. His wins and legacy are hard to top.

#3 is Sylvia 100%. He deserves it. He beat prime AA. He was a monster.

#4 Cain atm. Could be Cro Cop or Randy.

Big Nog didn't defend his title once. This is about the greatest MMA HW Champions....not the greatest MMA HW's. Nog is nowhere near #2. Fedor isn't #1 because he only defended 3x in 10 years. Tim Sylvia defended his title the same amount of times in a much shorter span.

 

[McDego]

Title defences in Pride were weird.

Fedor successfully defended his nr.1 position 18 f*cking times. 10 times vs top 10 HWs, 2x vs top 15 HWs, 2 olympic medalists, 2 giant undefeated fighters, Valivicius (for money) and Nagata for money.

That's at least 10 legit title defences.

No...this is only 3 legit title defenses...

 

[kikikhan]

No...this is only 3 legit title defenses...

I can't wait for stupid people to go extinct

 

[McDego]

I can't wait for stupid people to go extinct

You're counting three as ten, yet insult my intelligence?

You kids aren't realizing this is about the greatest HW CHAMPIONS, not the greatest HW's of all time.

Fedor wasn't/isn't the greatest champion. Sorry.

 

[kikikhan]

Big Nog didn't defend his title once. This is about the greatest MMA HW Champions....not the greatest MMA HW's. Nog is nowhere near #2. Fedor isn't #1 because he only defended 3x in 10 years. Tim Sylvia defended his title the same amount of times in a much shorter span.

Nog beat the following fighters when he became the new Nr. 1 fighter on the planet:

Coleman to become nr. 1, defended vs Herring (also for the Pride HW belt), Enson, Kikuta, Sapp, Schilt and Hendo, before losing to Fedor.

Now grow up and stop acting like Pride's title official title defences are fair. Every fight at HW vs the champ should have been considered for the title.

UFC was inferior at the time, so you counting those defences won't help you when there are fans who know MMA history.

 

[kikikhan]

You're counting three as ten, yet insult my intelligence?

You kids aren't realizing this is about the greatest HW CHAMPIONS, not the greatest HW's of all time.

Fedor wasn't/isn't the greatest champion. Sorry.

Fedor was the undefeated HW champion (lineal HW champ and nr. 1 fighter on the planet) for 7 years and 3 months. He also won 2 RINGS tournament before that.

Hell he won the Pride GP too

No one screams champion more than Fedor

You can act like you don't know that if you like, but you sound stupid as f*ck.

UFC champions don't count like Fedor's status did. He was the real champion. UFC champions weren't.

Fedor was the champ and the nr. 1 for most of his career, stop polluting the forum.

 

[McDego]

Nog beat the following fighters when he became the new Nr. 1 fighter on the planet:

Coleman to become nr. 1, defended vs Herring (also for the Pride HW belt), Enson, Kikuta, Sapp, Schilt and Hendo, before losing to Fedor.

Now grow up and stop acting like Pride's title official title defences are fair. Every fight at HW vs the champ should have been considered for the title.

UFC was inferior at the time, so ou counting those defences won't help you when there are fans who know MMA history.

Well, that's a nice concept and everything, but a non title fight is a non title fight. Anderson Silva's would-be first title defense against Lutter was a non title fight because Lutter missed weight. Silva's record for title defenses is tainted because of this. The official count is 10 when it should be 11. Hughes vs Riggs is the same thing.

You see there's a difference in a title fight and a non title fight. The difference is that the title is on the line in a title fight. Being a fan who knows MMA history, clearly you should understand a concept as simple as this. Then again...you literally can't even spell the word defenses properly, so....

 

[CoffeeAndBeer]

10 top 10 wins in 10 years with 18 wins vs non ranked fighters and only 3 title defenses.

:redface:

13 top 10 wins for a career.

13 = most in HW history :icon_idea



In this past era of our sport, the notion of "title defenses" is a silly concept, in context.

Different organizations... Gran Prix Tournaments... Open Weight bouts...
Do people understand what context means?
Do they plug their ears and cover their eyes?

 

[zec1234]

Hey did you see my thread: The Reign of every Consensus #1 HW -- from Mark Kerr to Fabricio Werdum...
And TheComebackKid's: TheComebackKid's Top 15 Greatest HW's of All Time

I love the topic. Appreciate the effort/work.

I was looking to put together a historic comparison of the "Consensus #1" versus "Lineal Champ" versus "Belt holders". Starting with the HWs. Your graphs/timelines should come in handy.

MMA needs conscientious, fair-mined, aficionados of the sport to provide proper context to this early era of the sport.

I like what TheComebackKid did and that is very close to our All Time HW list.
Your post is also very informative. I love reading about historical stuff.

What I don't like in some of those old (and current) rankings is that fighters are ranked based on the future expectations.
People get excited about some recent win or a flashy move and immediately put fighter high in the rankings.
That is why Mark Kerr was "considered" #1 HW. Without fighting any top fighter.

For me, rankings should be about things that fighters did, their achievements, not expected future results.
Ranking has to be earned and only way to earn it is through fighting though opponents.
And also, as you know, I like everything to be expressed through numbers. Not just saying this is better than that. You have to say how much and why.

I completely agree with you last statement.
If you need any other help, you know where you can find me.

 

[McDego]

Fedor was the undefeated HW champion (lineal HW champ and nr. 1 fighter on the planet) for 7 years and 3 months. He also won 2 RINGS tournament before that.

Hell he won the Pride GP too

No one screams champion more than Fedor

You can act like you don't know that if you like, but you sound stupid as f*ck.

UFC champions don't count like Fedor's status did. He was the real champion. UFC champions weren't.

Fedor was the champ and the nr. 1 for most of his career, stop polluting the forum.

#1 HW in history? Yes!

#1 HW Champion in history? Nope!

Champions defend their title. This is how you gauge their status as a champion. This is how Jon Jones, GSP, Silva, Aldo, and all the other great champions built their legacy as champions.

Fedor took gimmicky fights vs randoms during his reign as "champion" instead of constantly defending against top contenders. Shit..he even fought a middleweight at one point.

If you know MMA history so well, you should also remember people calling for Fedor to fight some actual competition and make the move to the UFC. When he actually DID fight real competition in a cage, he was finished 3 times in a row, and his stock dropped immensely.

Say whatever you will, but 3 defenses in 10 years is not what the greatest champion of said weight class does to earn the #1 spot. Tim Sylvia was a greater HW champion than Fedor. Get over it.

 

[McDego]

13 top 10 wins for a career.

13 = most in HW history :icon_idea



In this past era of our sport, the notion of "title defenses" is a silly concept, in context.

Different organizations... Gran Prix Tournaments... Open Weight bouts...
Do people understand what context means?
Do they plug their ears and cover their eyes?

He's clearly the #1 HW in history.

Just not the #1 HW Champion.

Where's the talk of Don Frye around here? 2x UFC HW tournament champion. Where they fought 3 times in a single night...?

Royce Gracie 3x open weight tournament champion as an undersized fighter..?

Coleman, Kerr, Severn each had 2 tournament wins as well.

 

[kikikhan]

Well, that's a nice concept and everything, but a non title fight is a non title fight. Anderson Silva's would-be first title defense against Lutter was a non title fight because Lutter missed weight. Silva's record for title defenses is tainted because of this. The official count is 10 when it should be 11. Hughes vs Riggs is the same thing.

You see there's a difference in a title fight and a non title fight. The difference is that the title is on the line in a title fight. Being a fan who knows MMA history, clearly you should understand a concept as simple as this. Then again...you literally can't even spell the word defenses properly, so....

With Anderson it's different, because Lutter missed weight. So it couldn't have been a fight for the MW title. Those LHW fights weren't for titles either. Logical.

With Minotauro and Fedor every fight was at HW/Openweight. Big difference.

When Wandy lost to Arona in 2005, I stopped considering him the Pride MW champion. I considered Shogun the new champ.

These political stupid things in Pride don't matter to me. When a champ is fighting a guy of the same category, it is a defence. Otherwise it's bullsh*t.

I can't believe how you are limiting yourself to some stupid official crap.

I sh*t on Pride's official defences.

They mean nothing to me.

 

[zec1234]

Following graph shows how some recent UFC title fights were scored in terms of Championship Bout Level:

Triangle at the top denotes interim belt, + is defense and X is title capture.
That might help you in finding out what line represents what fight.

In general, previous graph describes how UFC HW title was becoming more significant.
Last four years, UFC HW title fights was almost always between top fighter and somebody ranked in the top 5.

 

[McDego]

With Anderson it's different, because Lutter missed weight. So it couldn't have been a fight for the MW title. Those LHW fights weren't for titles either. Logical.

With Minotauro and Fedor every fight was at HW/Openweight. Big difference.

When Wandy lost to Arona in 2005, I stopped considering him the Pride MW champion. I considered Shogun the new champ.

These political stupid things in Pride don't matter to me. When a champ is fighting a guy of the same category, it is a defence. Otherwise it's bullsh*t.

I can't believe how you are limiting yourself to some stupid official crap.

I sh*t on Pride's official defences.

They mean nothing to me.

So both Silva and Hughes fought guys heavier than they were in what were supposed to be an official title defense for both, but those fights don't count as defenses? Yet for Fedor/Nog every fight counts? LOL!

Very contradicting and yes...very unofficial. Whether they mean something to you or not, it does not change the fact that they are not actual defenses.

How or why would I be "limiting" myself to "official crap" ? It's the only thing we have to go by.

There's no letter "c" in the word defense, man. Fuck.

 

[kikikhan]

He's clearly the #1 HW in history.

Just not the #1 HW Champion.

Where's the talk of Don Frye around here? 2x UFC HW tournament champion. Where they fought 3 times in a single night...?

Royce Gracie 3x open weight tournament champion as an undersized fighter..?

Coleman, Kerr, Severn each had 2 tournament wins as well.

Are you stupid?

Fedor won 2 RINGS tournaments.

Then he won the Pride HW title and with it the true, lineal nr. 1 HW and Openweight position in MMA. This was the most important belt at the time.

He kept the belt for as long as Pride existed. 3 official title defences and 1 Pride GP, would still be better than anything any other HW has done. Won 4 official title fights and 1 GP in his 4 years at the top in Pride. After Pride died, he won the WAMMA belt (which became the new nr. 1 belt) and defended it 2x.


No other HW held the most important title for as long, even if you just count "official" title fights. But you shouldn't because they make no sense.

 

[kikikhan]

So both Silva and Hughes fought guys heavier than they were in what were supposed to be an official title defense for both, but those fights don't count as defenses? Yet for Fedor/Nog every fight counts? LOL!

Very contradicting and yes...very unofficial. Whether they mean something to you or not, it does not change the fact that they are not actual defenses.

How or why would I be "limiting" myself to "official crap" ? It's the only thing we have to go by.

There's no letter "c" in the word defense, man. Fuck.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/defence#English

Don't get me started on the nonsense that is english writing

Wanderlei fought at HW vs Hunt and this is why he didn't lose the Pride MW title.

If Anderson lost to Forrest at LHW, of course he'd still be the MW champion.

These things make sense. UFC title fights make sense this way. Pride don't.

 

[Priceinator]

Big Nog didn't defend his title once. This is about the greatest MMA HW Champions....not the greatest MMA HW's. Nog is nowhere near #2. Fedor isn't #1 because he only defended 3x in 10 years. Tim Sylvia defended his title the same amount of times in a much shorter span.

Your lame semantic reasoning is indicative of your petty, malformed perspective.

 

[McDego]

Fedor lost to Kosaka in the only one night multi-fight Rings tournament he participated in. He didn't win the GP either...it was a NC vs Nog.

Nog won an actual Rings tournament, as did Hendo, but Fedor lost in the one he competed in.

 

[McDego]

Your lame semantic reasoning is indicative of your petty, malformed perspective.

So please inform me of how two guys with same number of title defenses are gauged in terms of championship prowess when one of the guys achieved the same number in a fraction of the time?

 

[kikikhan]

Fedor lost to Kosaka in the only one night multi-fight Rings tournament he participated in. He didn't win the GP either...it was a NC vs Nog.

Nog won an actual Rings tournament, as did Hendo, but Fedor lost in the one he competed in.

Hhahhhaaahah. OK, Now I see that you are a bitter tiny little manlet, who has some kind of problem with Fedor you can't sh*t on the GOAT like this and mean it