Alistair Overeem pulled over by the cops while talking to Helwani on the phone

Toxxus said:
So all of my viewpoints are discredited because I'm white and/or Christian and/or male?

Anyone dumb enough to like this is an admitted racist/bigot/sexist. Way to go guys.
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No. You implied there's no racism in cops pulling black people more often than white.

You feel I'm being racist? That proved my point. Assuming someone is more likely to be a criminal because of their color is racism just as me assuming you're a white christian male because of your point of view. Just because something is true doesn't mean it's not racist.
 
Johnny Rosa said:
Yeah, all those corrupt black politicians and bankers who prey on the ignorance of the poor uneducated white people. All those black CEO's polluting the world and devistating the economy by outsourcing jobs (creating poor esp whites to turn to street crimes), but it all is legal because they bribe other black politicians calling it 'political contributions' and 'superpacs'.

The blacks who get away with everything while really destroying the economy and environment piss me off the most, while the population blames the underpriviledged whites. I agree it's only fair they pull them all over, and shoot them disproportionately often even when unarmed.
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Oh non sense. I'm all about equality, I just don't have my head buried in the sand. I'm aware there are problems among ALL groups. It doesn't help when you have people banning guns in places like Chicago causing even more murder so that no law abiding citizen can protect themselves. This country is very corrupt in all corners, but don't pretend these people don't have a choice. I came from a very rough background. Statistically speaking I probably should have grown up to be a serial killer, thief, or at least an addict. Instead I joined the military to get out of that situation. I didn't go back to my home town either. Life is all about choices.

Careful what you look for as "truth" in the media btw. They have an agenda to promote hatred. Do you have any idea how many white people died last year at the hands of law enforcement?
 
Moezao said:
No. You implied there's no racism in cops pulling black people more often than white.

You feel I'm being racist? That proved my point. Assuming someone is more likely to be a criminal because of their color is racism just as me assuming you're a white christian male because of your point of view. Just because something is true doesn't mean it's not racist.
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I wouldn't go as far as to say there is never racism involved, but there's a reason the behavior persists. They find things to bust people on. Like I said, if a cop pulled over 100 black people and never found anything to bust someone on he'd stop wasting his time. He's doing it because (racist or not) it's working.

I also don't feel this is a race issue any more than I believe that blacks in Chicago die in droves because they're black. They die in droves because they're poor, desperate to make enough money to survive and city won't commit enough police resources to help keep them safe.

It's not a race issue. It's a socio-economic issue.
 
Toxxus said:
This is pretty much it. It's not like the cops pulled over 1000 black drivers, never found anything wrong and then decided they would keep doing it anyway.

They're pulling over people with certain looks (poor, thuggy, drug dealers) and if you have a disproportionate number of poor in a certain ethnic group they will appear to be the victims of racial profiling.
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This is pretty bunk imo. First off, reasonable suspicion, due process and all that jazz. Second, cases have studied the effectiveness of racial profiling show it to be at best ineffective and at worse destructive for the community. The two biggest cases that jump to my mind are the Ferguson DOJ report and the NYPD lawsuit.
 
Toxxus said:
So all of my viewpoints are discredited because I'm white and/or Christian and/or male?

Anyone dumb enough to like this is an admitted racist/bigot/sexist. Way to go guys.
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Sounds about right to me, I mean really:

christianity_o_1250573.jpg
 
Not the first time teh Reem has been busted.



 
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tasticles said:
Oh non sense. I'm all about equality, I just don't have my head buried in the sand. I'm aware there are problems among ALL groups. It doesn't help when you have people banning guns in places like Chicago causing even more murder so that no law abiding citizen can protect themselves. This country is very corrupt in all corners, but don't pretend these people don't have a choice. I came from a very rough background. Statistically speaking I probably should have grown up to be a serial killer, thief, or at least an addict. Instead I joined the military to get out of that situation. I didn't go back to my home town either. Life is all about choices.

Careful what you look for as "truth" in the media btw. They have an agenda to promote hatred. Do you have any idea how many white people died last year at the hands of law enforcement?
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Fair enough, the truth is always in the grey area. It's not all black and white (pun intended). I threw the over the top opposite in there on purpose because nuances are difficult for many.

When I grew up I was literally pulled over every week for no reason. This infuriated me immensely and makes you feel helpless. Profiling and discrimination imo will create more of the same.
 
Bork said:
This is pretty bunk imo. First off, reasonable suspicion, due process and all that jazz. Second, cases have studied the effectiveness of racial profiling show it to be at best ineffective and at worse destructive for the community. The two biggest cases that jump to my mind are the Ferguson DOJ report and the NYPD lawsuit.
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The Ferguson DOJ report was racially motivated from the get go. I don't know if the leadership in Ferguson is inherently racist as they are a bunch of corrupt money grabbing assholes and their victims just happen to be not-white. I don't think they're sitting in parlor rooms going, MWAHAHAHA let's get darkie. They're just fining everyone over every little fucking thing driving the already poor into abject poverty and into prison.

Definitely corrupt, evil motherfuckers. Not sold on the idea that it was racially motivated.

I think most broad scale issues in America turn out to be motivated by money and not racism. Our media system here does not help.

I saw a video recently of an under-trained female cop who happened to be black stun gunning the shit out of some old white guy. Then in hysterical panic (he's on the ground flailing at this point) she pulls out her pistol and commands him to stop moving while she's shocking him. He can't comply since he's getting shocked and she shoots him 3x. He can even be heard screaming, "What the fuck??".

Nobody thought she was racist. Swap her out with a white cop and turn the victim into a black lady and see if opinions would magically assume racism as the cause vs. lack of training and an innate personality not well suited to the rigors of police work.
 
tasticles said:
Oh non sense. I'm all about equality, I just don't have my head buried in the sand. I'm aware there are problems among ALL groups. It doesn't help when you have people banning guns in places like Chicago causing even more murder so that no law abiding citizen can protect themselves. This country is very corrupt in all corners, but don't pretend these people don't have a choice. I came from a very rough background. Statistically speaking I probably should have grown up to be a serial killer, thief, or at least an addict. Instead I joined the military to get out of that situation. I didn't go back to my home town either. Life is all about choices.

Careful what you look for as "truth" in the media btw. They have an agenda to promote hatred. Do you have any idea how many white people died last year at the hands of law enforcement?
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To add though, you pretty literally stated that blacks commit more crimes. I disagree. Poor people (many of whom are black, I wonder why?) tend to commit more obvious crimes with direct victims. Rich people rape society.
 
Seems to me this is a clear cut case of racial brofiling. The cops searched him and found a WMD. He was packing a holstered BBC with one loaded in the chamber. We won't be seeing him fight for a while.
 
Toxxus said:
I wouldn't go as far as to say there is never racism involved, but there's a reason the behavior persists. They find things to bust people on. Like I said, if a cop pulled over 100 black people and never found anything to bust someone on he'd stop wasting his time. He's doing it because (racist or not) it's working.

I also don't feel this is a race issue any more than I believe that blacks in Chicago die in droves because they're black. They die in droves because they're poor, desperate to make enough money to survive and city won't commit enough police resources to help keep them safe.

It's not a race issue. It's a socio-economic issue.
Click to expand...

In NY blacks were stopped and frisked disproportionately more than any other race yet more than 80% of all people stopped were innocent.

  • In 2013, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 191,558 times.
    169,252 were totally innocent (88 percent).
    104,958 were black (56 percent).
    55,191 were Latino (29 percent).
    20,877 were white (11 percent).
  • In 2014, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 45,787 times.
    37,744 were totally innocent (82 percent).
    24,319 were black (53 percent).
    12,489 were Latino (27 percent).
    5,467 were white (12 percent).
  • In the first three quarters of 2015, New Yorkers were stopped by the police 18,351 times.
    14,795 were totally innocent (81 percent).
    9,709 were black (54 percent).
    5,292 were Latino (29 percent).
    2,075 were white (12 percent).
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http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data

edit: That's not what I would call effective policing. That's terrorizing a community. Racial profiling by police is a very real issue.
 
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Johnny Rosa said:
To add though, you pretty literally stated that blacks commit more crimes. I disagree. Poor people (many of whom are black, I wonder why?) tend to commit more obvious crimes with direct victims. Rich people rape society.
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I was referring more to poor and uneducated but I'm not going to back pedal and say you're wrong either. White people commit plenty of crime too to include drug dealing. I will just say white people tend to do the less obvious stupid shit like holding up a gas station. White collar crime such as money laundering is pretty common with whites and taking bribes of course. The police are naturally going to target crimes that are more transparent. They hire detectives to get a lot white people lol. yes Poverty does play a significant role in the types of criminal activity. Skin color doesn't make one more or less prone to it, just changes the circumstances and opportunity sometimes.
 
JonnyP said:
In NY blacks were stopped and frisked disproportionately more than any other race yet more than 80% of all people stopped were innocent.



http://www.nyclu.org/content/stop-and-frisk-data

edit: That's not what I would call effective policing. That's terrorizing a community. Racial profiling by police is a very real issue.
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The stats are nice and I'm certainly against New York style stop and frisk since there is no reasonable cause which violates constitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure.

Did they do a breakdown of rate of innocence vs. rate of being stopped? Just showing the overall pool is mostly innocent doesn't really speak to the effectiveness of the targeting.

I do agree that New York in their stop and frisk approach was a massive ongoing violation of constitutional rights for everyone. The same is true in Ferguson where the city was just fining everyone over everything to make up budget shortfalls.
 
Toxxus said:
The Ferguson DOJ report was racially motivated from the get go. I don't know if the leadership in Ferguson is inherently racist as they are a bunch of corrupt money grabbing assholes and their victims just happen to be not-white. I don't think they're sitting in parlor rooms going, MWAHAHAHA let's get darkie. They're just fining everyone over every little fucking thing driving the already poor into abject poverty and into prison.

Definitely corrupt, evil motherfuckers. Not sold on the idea that it was racially motivated.

I think most broad scale issues in America turn out to be motivated by money and not racism. Our media system here does not help.

I saw a video recently of an under-trained female cop who happened to be black stun gunning the shit out of some old white guy. Then in hysterical panic (he's on the ground flailing at this point) she pulls out her pistol and commands him to stop moving while she's shocking him. He can't comply since he's getting shocked and she shoots him 3x. He can even be heard screaming, "What the fuck??".

Nobody thought she was racist. Swap her out with a white cop and turn the victim into a black lady and see if opinions would magically assume racism as the cause vs. lack of training and an innate personality not well suited to the rigors of police work.
Click to expand...

Someone didn't read the DOJ report and about the resignation of the chief(?). They found racist emails and did a pretty thorough data analysis of the department as well as interviews (over 100 pgs if you care) . The report is easily available if you want to read and post any issues with it. It was debated pretty extensively in the WR (wit myself included) and I don't recall any good arguments against it but maybe I'm just biased.

The same regarding the NYPD lawsuit. And given that the NYPD fought it pretty hard, I imagine that it'd be even harder for you to find fault with the issues found against racial profiling or that racial profiling occurred. It was ruled that they were racially profiled, it's ineffective, and at worst destructive. This is also freely available.

I get that times change quickly, but it's not like issues vanish. Not long ago black towns were being burned down during the Jim crow and civil rights era. Minorities, black ppl especially, have been complaining about this type of stuff for a long time (arguably policing, to some degree, being a remnant of the past). It's not surprising to anyone paying attention what has been discovered/ruled under [arguably much more thorough in recent times] cases. For crying out loud, every year there are successful cases against job discrimination on the basis of race. Some of the biggest cases have been recently.
 
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