Ali Rizvi is correct - great talk on non-believers in the Muslim world

[jeffk]

Ali Rizvi grew up in Saudi Arabia and went to American schools there. He has a book coming out in November I look forward to reading.

He is a smart guy and I almost always enjoy his talks and interviews.

This is his latest where he talks about non-believers in the Muslim world.

He is not a right wing or left wing guy. He explains the costs of leaving the costs of leaving religion.

He is for criticism of religion but wants Muslim to be treated with dignity.

 

[superpunch]

Clearly he's racist and only a small extremist minority hate ex-Muslims that leave their religion.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Ah he is Atheist I can't take him seriously he could have an Agenda.

 

[jeffk]

Are you joking? What do you mean?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Are you joking? What do you mean?

He means that Rizvi is probably a damn commie.

 

[ShinkanPo]

He means that Rizvi is probably a damn commie.

A mass murdering communists that will make Polpot and Hitler look like amateurs.

 

[LucasWithLidOff]

A Muslim atheist. That's the worst kind of atheist.

 

[Son of Jamin]

Probably a Mossad plant that wants to undermine such a peaceful religion!

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Cliff notes, mother fugga, do you write them?

 

[Pixelated Porn]

Ali Rizvi grew up in Saudi Arabia and went to American schools there. He has a book coming out in November I look forward to reading.

He is a smart guy and I almost always enjoy his talks and interviews.

This is his latest where he talks about non-believers in the Muslim world.

He is not a right wing or left wing guy. He explains the costs of leaving the costs of leaving religion.

He is for criticism of religion but wants Muslim to be treated with dignity.

Lol, if you are going to post a video no one heard of, instead of giving a biography of the dick head, maybe just give some points the video makes that prodded you into making a thread about it. Amateur hour here.

90 MINUTE FUCKING VIDEO???? GTFO

 

[snakedafunky]

Whatever still looks like an Arab to me.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Seriously @jeffk we're gonna need some cliffs or something here. I might get around to watching or listening to the whole thing but I would appreciate them as well.

 

[jeffk]

Okay some points he makes...

He starts off talking about when he was 5 his 3 year old cousin died of cancer. This lead him to become a skeptic and devote his life to science and medicine. The same event led his aunt to become more devote. He understands that belief in religion eased the pain and misery for his aunt and got their family through a really tough time. Up until the past 35 years all people could do was pray to God so he would not take his cousin or others away, now science has found a 90% survival rate for the cancer that killed his cousin. Science works.

We like stories were good triumphs over evil and where justice is served. Belief in an afterlife where people are judged on their actions provide a sense of justice. We want a meaning in our lives. We don't like the idea that some asshole can be corrupt and hurt lots people and get rich and live a very good life and never face any consequences. We don't like the idea a 3 year old can die of cancer for no reason. It is unfair.

So there are a lot of costs of those who give up on their religion. It makes him and people like me appreciate the courage of those who give it up.

Cost of giving up religion can include a lose of community, a sense of loss of where to turn for morality, a loss of identity. A person can lose their family and be ostracized by friends. And in many Muslim lands face persecution by the government. Polls show an alarming rate of support for death for apostasy in many Muslim lands.

When a Muslim or other former religious person decides they can no longer subscribe to the religion they often go through a period of disorientation and depression and feel isolated.

When some Muslims see Islam as being attacked, they see it is an attack on them. So much of their identity is being a Muslim even if they do not really know much of what is in the religious texts.

That doesn't mean Islam shouldn't be criticized. There is a big difference between being critical of ideas or an ideology and of demonizing people.

So to lower the costs of letting go of a religion exMuslim groups have been forming. They are like minded people who have had shared experiences get together in person or over the Internet and talk with each other. Rivzi talks about exMusims getting together for a Muslim holiday where they drink and the women show some sexuality that they would not do before. They want to celebrate the event as a cultural event but without the religion.

Rivzi then goes into how twitter is a place where ex-Muslims share ideas. He shared some of his own posts that said something like exMuslims are persecuted by Muslims for being heretics and apostates and suffer bigotry from some on the far right as being Muslim in the US.

ExMuslims suffer bigotry from the far right and apolism of the far left that conflate criticism of Islam with bigotry. He points out that criticism of Islam and demonization of Muslims are two different things. As an exMuslim he shares in criticism of Islam but does not want his family to suffer any bigotry for being Muslim.

This is just the first half. I'll try to sum up the second half later.

 

[jeffk]

He talks about people like Richard Dawkins. Some call him bigoted or a racist because he has been critical of Islam. But the exMuslms or closet Muslims in Muslim lands that Rizvi talks to tend to like him. They relate to his anger and verbal and written attack on religion. And they are often unable to speak out themselves.

He talks about if you want to liberate a society you should give them free access to the Internet.

In the 1980s people would have thought something like Facebook would be an Orwellian nightmare since it collects so much data on people's habits and personal information. But people can say things on Twitter and Facebook or other sites that they cannot say or see in their real life. People in Muslim lands now have a portal to the world they never knew existed. And this is important in a lot of ways.

It is a double edged sword though. The Internet can show people in Muslim lands that their leaders are corrupt and their leaders use religion to oppress them. ExMuslims can form groups online that can help with the disorientation of leaving the religion.

The Internet can also be used for jihadist propaganda purposes. ISIS uses slick promotions to attract Muslims or others to convert to become Muslims in the Western world to join them. I don't know if he mentions it but their propaganda seems to be most effective to Muslims who do not have a lot of traditional Islamic teaching. So you have Muslims born in the West who buy into some really crap ideology. Who are you going to bomb?

ExMuslims and liberal Muslims are fighting for free speech, gender equality, LBGT rights, secularism and are willing to risk isolation, torture, and even death.

Then he talks about a quote from Thomas Friedman at 1:01 and says the number of exMuslims is on the rise and the war of ideas is ON!.

Then he addresses the audience in questions and answers.

I'll sum those up later.

 

[Slippery Kantus]

He talks about people like Richard Dawkins. Some call him bigoted or a racist because he has been critical of Islam. But the exMuslms or closet Muslims in Muslim lands that Rizvi talks to tend to like him. They relate to his anger and verbal and written attack on religion. And they are often unable to speak out themselves.

He talks about if you want to liberate a society you should give them free access to the Internet.

In the 1980s people would have thought something like Facebook would be an Orwellian nightmare since it collects so much data on people's habits and personal information. But people can say things on Twitter and Facebook or other sites that they cannot say or see in their real life. People in Muslim lands now have a portal to the world they never knew existed. And this is important in a lot of ways.

It is a double edged sword though. The Internet can show people in Muslim lands that their leaders are corrupt and their leaders use religion to oppress them. ExMuslims can form groups online that can help with the disorientation of leaving the religion.

The Internet can also be used for jihadist propaganda purposes. ISIS uses slick promotions to attract Muslims or others to convert to become Muslims in the Western world to join them. I don't know if he mentions it but their propaganda seems to be most effective to Muslims who do not have a lot of traditional Islamic teaching. So you have Muslims born in the West who buy into some really crap ideology. Who are you going to bomb?

ExMuslims and liberal Muslims are fighting for free speech, gender equality, LBGT rights, secularism and are willing to risk isolation, torture, and even death.

Then he talks about a quote from Thomas Friedman at 1:01 and says the number of exMuslims is on the rise and the war of ideas is ON!.

Then he addresses the audience in questions and answers.

I'll sum those up later.

Thanks, will give it a listen tonight.