Alcohol and tobacco are by far the biggest threat to human welfare of all addictive drugs

My superficial approach would be :
- status quo on drugs and alcohol : the West does NOT have cultural ties with drugs. I see absolutely no need to make them legal. Why change laws for 2 % of the population that uses drugs ?
On alcohol : the West DOES have cultural ties with alcohol (beer for Germany, Belgium and UK, whisky for the UK, wine for France, etc.) and I am against changing laws on them / taxing them. Yeah, in my mind, in doubt = status quo.
- legislate on / tax fastfood and industrial processed foods with sugar / bunch of salt / chemicals in them. This type of garbage food is a relatively new phenomenom in the West and one must be blind to not see that our nutrition is going to shit. So I don't give a shit, tax the fuck out of it and use this to subsidise vegetables and rice. I don't care about fat fucks who will cry freedom.

Whether or not there are cultural ties to drugs or not (I suppose that is debatable) my opinion on legalising drugs is more to do with the practical realities about how prohibition fails in every sense of the word.

Prohibition has clearly not worked for the decades we have tried it and there are now a growing example of countries who have decriminalised/legalised marijuana without the apocalyptic outcomes proclaimed by doomsayers.
Prohibition is expensive and a drain on otherwise good policing resources. These could be reallocated to something productive.
Prohibition makes it more dangerous to users as the substance has no safeguards, audit process or oversight. Even if you care little for the lives of the drug users this has an impact on the health system and you pay for it regardless.
Prohibition creates organised crime.
Prohibition fills the justice system and prisons with unsustainable volumes.

All of this is bad in my eyes. They would be much better off selectively legalising substances and making them safe to consume. The money earned by tax, and saved by policing, could be used for education and mental health (this being a key to the addiction in the first place) and come out way ahead.
 
I don´t think weed is going to have that much of an effect.
Once it's widespread and people don't feel the need to hide it? I think best case scenario is a lot of people are going to lose their licenses for impaired operation.
 
We're just using different definitions. You're using frequency and I'm using amount. Not judging, but I've known a lot of coke heads and none were able to stop at any point in the night. Once you do the first bump, you're not going to sober up at any point that night. If that were alcohol, you'd say it's a problem but because there's no such thing as black out high, we can just pretend it's maintaining.

You clearly don´t know shit about coke. Have a good day Sir.
 
See Portugal where all drugs are decriminalized
Portugal has 1/30th the population of the US and is not physically attached to a drug cartel nation (clearly I mean Canada). Their success is great for them, I doubt the US would be able to see the same results.

Edit: I do support decriminalization for simple possession for the record.
 
Once it's widespread and people don't feel the need to hide it? I think best case scenario is a lot of people are going to lose their licenses for impaired operation.

Ofcourse they still have to hide it. Legalizing weed != legalizing driving when stoned. It´s not like legalization is going to create thousands of new pot smokers who don´t know what they are doing. The ones who were already smoking were probably already driving of so inclined.

Also didn´t seem to make to much of a dent in Colorado.
 
Portugal has 1/30th the population of the US and is not physically attached to a drug cartel nation (clearly I mean Canada). Their success is great for them, I doubt the US would be able to see the same results.

Uhhhm do you know how much coastline Portugal has and how close it is to Africa? Most major drug routes into Europe go through Portugal or Spain.

Legalizing drugs. The state producing them and getting a chunk of all sales. Do you go to a scary cartel dude and get something that contains God knows what or do you go to the government phrmacy and get 100% clean product with no scary cartel dudes around?
That would also take a pretty big chunk of money away from the cartels.
 
Sorry I replied to your post but it was aimed at some posts that I collectively find fallacious.

But then, what is the implication of your post? If we agree that alcohol in small quantities is not bad, but that heavy drinking has consequences, then what do you propose ?
I'd start with stopping the promotion of alcohol, like society did with the promotion of cigarettes. Education etc is important too, apparently, since not a lot of people know the stats and facts surrounding alcohol.

In Ontario Canada (my home) cell phone use contributes to more traffic deaths than alcohol. Should we ban cell phones?
Are cell phones correlated to an increase in domestic or public violence, such as assault and battery? Can you die when you're addicted and you try to quit? Does it permanently destroy brain cells (well maybe) and your liver?

I'm not advocating for banning anything.
 
Or alcohol. Don't want to drink ? It's pretty easy to avoid it.
Easier than sugar, but there's certain societal pressure to continue or start drinking. It's also available basically everywhere in large doses.
 
Uhhhm do you know how much coastline Portugal has and how close it is to Africa? Most major drug routes into Europe go through Portugal or Spain.

Legalizing drugs. The state producing them and getting a chunk of all sales. Do you go to a scary cartel dude and get something that contains God knows what or do you go to the government phrmacy and get 100% clean product with no scary cartel dudes around?
That would also take a pretty big chunk of money away from the cartels.
Guinea-Bissau is an extremely important drug hub and it is also a former Portuguese colony. From there, Europe receives a lot of drugs.
 
Uhhhm do you know how much coastline Portugal has and how close it is to Africa? Most major drug routes into Europe go through Portugal or Spain.

Legalizing drugs. The state producing them and getting a chunk of all sales. Do you go to a scary cartel dude and get something that contains God knows what or do you go to the government phrmacy and get 100% clean product with no scary cartel dudes around?
That would also take a pretty big chunk of money away from the cartels.
Sorry. Does Portugal allow cocaine and heroin to be sold in pharmacies? I was under the impression that they had decriminalization and addiction counseling/treatment as opposed to arrest. Unless of course you're talking about taking it several steps further.
 

40% increase in all drivers involved in fatal accidents. MJ did see an increase of an xtra 63 deaths over 3 years. Alcohol an xtra 21 in 2 years. So MJ didn´t cause a 40% increase. It was over all.

Also

Positive test results reflected in the NHTSA data do not indicate whether a driver was high at the time of the crash since traces of marijuana use from weeks earlier also can appear as a positive result.

I´m not saying there isn´t an increase, however that article has a lot of ifs and buts.
 
Sorry. Does Portugal allow cocaine and heroin to be sold in pharmacies? I was under the impression that they had decriminalization and addiction counseling/treatment as opposed to arrest. Unless of course you're talking about taking it several steps further.

I was talking about taking it further.

I think Schwitzerland gives out some good stuff to heroin addicts, or at least they used to.
 
40% increase in all drivers involved in fatal accidents. MJ did see an increase of an xtra 63 deaths over 3 years. Alcohol an xtra 21 in 2 years. So MJ didn´t cause a 40% increase. It was over all.

Also



I´m not saying there isn´t an increase, however that article has a lot of ifs and buts.
It clearly says they can't be directly tied, but a 40% increase post-legalization is a funny coincidence.
 
What don't I know about coke? I've done it probably 10 times, dated a coke head. What am I missing?

That people can do coke with moderation. Pretty much everything I have said.. You started with "hey they do more lines than 1" then switched it over to amount all of a sudden when that was addressed.
You also seem to think you can have a buzz running all night from 1 line or can do the amount required in 1 line, otherwise you must be going balls out and have a problem. lol. That´s not how coke works.

Just because you only know cokehead losers doesn´t mean everyone is like that. Sounds a lot more like meth your friends were taking.
 
I recommend arsenic.

So just kill them? How humane of you.

Heroin addicts can actually be productive members of society if their addiction is managed. The docu I saw about Schwitzerlands heroin program had all sorts in it. University professors etc.
 
It clearly says they can't be directly tied, but a 40% increase post-legalization is a funny coincidence.

But it´s dishonest to say 40% increase because of MJ legalization. That´s not what the article says at all. If you wanted to make a point the 145% increase in MJ positives would have been a much better starting point.
 
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