1. The official Sherdog Store is back! Check it out! » Discuss it here! »

AKA and Lack of Submission Wins From Their Roster

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Futureal, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Futureal Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    After Cain seemingly being in some great positions to finish JDS with a choke, and some of the criticism that came his way as a result, it struck me that it's extremely rare for any fighters fighting out of AKA to win via submission.

    Don't get me wrong, they have an amazing roster of fighters, and if I was a fighter and was choosing a gym it would easily be one of my first choices. I'm just wondering if they don't train(or have the trainers to do so) much offensive jiu jitsu? Defensively speaking, they have fighters with amazing submission defence like Fitch and Maynard.
     
  2. RaggedyRooster Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe they like punching people in the face instead.

    And dont most AKA fighters train in something called Guerrilla Jiu Jitsu
     
  3. SeanyCarter Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Sunnyvale, CA.
    Dave Camarillo has kind of split from AKA, but he still trains the fighters there. He's one of the best grapplers out there and knows how to finish. However, a lot of AKA guys don't train regularly with Dave. I believe Cain does, but his forte seems to be G&P more than submission. Remember, going for subs requires strength and you can burn your arms going for an RNC that isn't finished.
     
  4. itheuser Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Messages:
    3,428
    Likes Received:
    13
    Going for submissions does not require strength. Just the opposite. I would not call what Cain does an efficient use of energy. He uses more energy trying to bludgeon his opponent for 5 rounds, than if he simply focused on finishing them as soon as possible.
     
  5. Futureal Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    Don't get me wrong, I think Cain's performance on Saturday night was pretty much flawless(I say that as a JDS fan). In saying that, I do kind of see where people like Miesha Tate is coming from when they say it was risky not finishing JDS, as he is always dangerous. Someone like Cain with Gracie-esque jiu jitsu would be pretty much the perfect heavyweight.
     
  6. FrodoFraggins Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    7,123
    Likes Received:
    3
    Going for subs often means releasing some of your control. That makes it easier for guys to escape and get back on their feet. It happens a lot. It's more efficient to keep them in control than risk letting them get up and start punching you again.
     
  7. SovietMusic Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,794
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    Didn't Cain attempt an armbar at some point in the fight?? I remember the way he caught it being relatively slick.
     
  8. MatrixTMN White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2012
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exactly.
     
  9. Omni** Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Messages:
    4,565
    Likes Received:
    0
    it usually works for cain because he just uses their standing up as a way of going for the next takedown via clinch or body lock. However, for JDS, he studied Cain very well and managed to get back up (and stay up) even while Cain has the body lock later in the rounds - both partly from JDS's acknowledgement of Cain's technique and Cain's gas tank wearing out. I think if they fought again, he would try the submission route for JDS but then again, dont fix what isnt broken.
     
  10. Irenaeus Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    6,892
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    This frightful and this angry land
    Huh? No.

    If you are burning your arms out on a rear naked choke, you're doing something seriously wrong. Maybe you are talking about gripfighting or something, but the choke itself is as effortless as a choke can be.
     
  11. Bluesbreaker Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2008
    Messages:
    5,617
    Likes Received:
    180
    Hmm...
     
  12. 99Silva Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    10,716
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oz
    I thought it was called AKA for a reason. That stands for American Kickboxing Academy not American Submission Academy. I think they rely more on striking and grappling over there. Cain almost had a submission against Jds but he couldn't get it and just let go like he didn't care. I think they are more focused on kicking more than anything else. Also pace they have good endurance the fighters I mean.
     
  13. deepestBlue White Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Should be called AWA anyway
     
  14. deepestBlue White Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    I go with the control argument here. Cain went for an armbar, lost it and ended with his back on the ground if I remember correctly.
    Doesn't matter how good your JJ is, submitting Black Belts in an MMA fight is always hard and you risk to loose control.
     
  15. Selukrid612 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Napa, California
    Well those guys are mainly wrestlers and it seems like despite a few exceptions you don't really see a lot of wrestlers racking up submission wins. Maybe they're stuck in that defense-oriented mindset they undoubtedly enter the sport with.
     
  16. NGute87 Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    184
    Location:
    Ohio
    Its obvious Cain sucks, he couldnt even sub a BJJ black belt.... how lame.....
     
  17. Futureal Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2011
    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    UK
    I appreciate that, but once you have someone as hurt and tired as JDS was, their black belt becomes less of a factor. People like Jones, Lauzon or the Diaz brothers(for instance) would be all over a hurt/gassed/vulnerable opponent on the ground looking to finish.
     
  18. HaulParris Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    Messages:
    19,460
    Likes Received:
    2,953
    Location:
    Brooklyn
    I agree. The first image that comes to me when I hear/read "American Kickboxing Academy" is Koscheck falling after kicking Dustin Hazelett in the head.
     
  19. deepestBlue White Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    Maybe you're right and the AKA-Guys should hunt for a submission a little bit more, they all say they want to finish. i just say that the argument 'go for the submission because JDS (or anybody else) is so dangerous' can be countered with the danger of ending in a miserable position with a hurt guy that has nothing to lose pounding on you.
     
  20. CrashStitches Please Cha Cha Cha Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    11,413
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Rowdy Warwagon
    As a JDS fan, I was 100% sure Cain was going to finish that armbar. Nice attempt by Cain, and amazing heart to escape by an exhausted, battered JDS.

    Cain, a wrestler, nearly armbarred a BJJ black belt, HW MMA world champion that trains with Anderson and the Nogs. Let's back up on hating on Dave Camarillo.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.