AKA and Lack of Submission Wins From Their Roster

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Futureal, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. Futureal

    Futureal Brown Belt

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    After Cain seemingly being in some great positions to finish JDS with a choke, and some of the criticism that came his way as a result, it struck me that it's extremely rare for any fighters fighting out of AKA to win via submission.

    Don't get me wrong, they have an amazing roster of fighters, and if I was a fighter and was choosing a gym it would easily be one of my first choices. I'm just wondering if they don't train(or have the trainers to do so) much offensive jiu jitsu? Defensively speaking, they have fighters with amazing submission defence like Fitch and Maynard.
     
  2. RaggedyRooster

    RaggedyRooster Blue Belt

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    Maybe they like punching people in the face instead.

    And dont most AKA fighters train in something called Guerrilla Jiu Jitsu
     
  3. SeanyCarter

    SeanyCarter Purple Belt

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    Dave Camarillo has kind of split from AKA, but he still trains the fighters there. He's one of the best grapplers out there and knows how to finish. However, a lot of AKA guys don't train regularly with Dave. I believe Cain does, but his forte seems to be G&P more than submission. Remember, going for subs requires strength and you can burn your arms going for an RNC that isn't finished.
     
  4. itheuser

    itheuser Brown Belt

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    Going for submissions does not require strength. Just the opposite. I would not call what Cain does an efficient use of energy. He uses more energy trying to bludgeon his opponent for 5 rounds, than if he simply focused on finishing them as soon as possible.
     
  5. Futureal

    Futureal Brown Belt

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    Don't get me wrong, I think Cain's performance on Saturday night was pretty much flawless(I say that as a JDS fan). In saying that, I do kind of see where people like Miesha Tate is coming from when they say it was risky not finishing JDS, as he is always dangerous. Someone like Cain with Gracie-esque jiu jitsu would be pretty much the perfect heavyweight.
     
  6. FrodoFraggins

    FrodoFraggins Black Belt

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    Going for subs often means releasing some of your control. That makes it easier for guys to escape and get back on their feet. It happens a lot. It's more efficient to keep them in control than risk letting them get up and start punching you again.
     
  7. SovietMusic

    SovietMusic Purple Belt

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    Didn't Cain attempt an armbar at some point in the fight?? I remember the way he caught it being relatively slick.
     
  8. MatrixTMN

    MatrixTMN White Belt

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    Exactly.
     
  9. Omni**

    Omni** Brown Belt

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    it usually works for cain because he just uses their standing up as a way of going for the next takedown via clinch or body lock. However, for JDS, he studied Cain very well and managed to get back up (and stay up) even while Cain has the body lock later in the rounds - both partly from JDS's acknowledgement of Cain's technique and Cain's gas tank wearing out. I think if they fought again, he would try the submission route for JDS but then again, dont fix what isnt broken.
     
  10. Irenaeus

    Irenaeus Black Belt

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    Huh? No.

    If you are burning your arms out on a rear naked choke, you're doing something seriously wrong. Maybe you are talking about gripfighting or something, but the choke itself is as effortless as a choke can be.
     
  11. Bluesbreaker

    Bluesbreaker Black Belt

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    Hmm...
     
  12. 99Silva

    99Silva Banned Banned

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    I thought it was called AKA for a reason. That stands for American Kickboxing Academy not American Submission Academy. I think they rely more on striking and grappling over there. Cain almost had a submission against Jds but he couldn't get it and just let go like he didn't care. I think they are more focused on kicking more than anything else. Also pace they have good endurance the fighters I mean.
     
  13. deepestBlue

    deepestBlue White Belt

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    Should be called AWA anyway
     
  14. deepestBlue

    deepestBlue White Belt

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    I go with the control argument here. Cain went for an armbar, lost it and ended with his back on the ground if I remember correctly.
    Doesn't matter how good your JJ is, submitting Black Belts in an MMA fight is always hard and you risk to loose control.
     
  15. Selukrid612

    Selukrid612 Red Belt

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    Well those guys are mainly wrestlers and it seems like despite a few exceptions you don't really see a lot of wrestlers racking up submission wins. Maybe they're stuck in that defense-oriented mindset they undoubtedly enter the sport with.
     
  16. NGute87

    NGute87 Purple Belt

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    Its obvious Cain sucks, he couldnt even sub a BJJ black belt.... how lame.....
     
  17. Futureal

    Futureal Brown Belt

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    I appreciate that, but once you have someone as hurt and tired as JDS was, their black belt becomes less of a factor. People like Jones, Lauzon or the Diaz brothers(for instance) would be all over a hurt/gassed/vulnerable opponent on the ground looking to finish.
     
  18. HaulParris

    HaulParris Gold Belt

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    I agree. The first image that comes to me when I hear/read "American Kickboxing Academy" is Koscheck falling after kicking Dustin Hazelett in the head.
     
  19. deepestBlue

    deepestBlue White Belt

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    Maybe you're right and the AKA-Guys should hunt for a submission a little bit more, they all say they want to finish. i just say that the argument 'go for the submission because JDS (or anybody else) is so dangerous' can be countered with the danger of ending in a miserable position with a hurt guy that has nothing to lose pounding on you.
     
  20. CrashStitches

    CrashStitches Please Cha Cha Cha Banned

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    As a JDS fan, I was 100% sure Cain was going to finish that armbar. Nice attempt by Cain, and amazing heart to escape by an exhausted, battered JDS.

    Cain, a wrestler, nearly armbarred a BJJ black belt, HW MMA world champion that trains with Anderson and the Nogs. Let's back up on hating on Dave Camarillo.
     

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