Agressive blasting jams up technical strikers

[linx]

High level boxers need their feet under them and their range established through jabs and body shots to get comfortable, JDS had no such chance.

High level boxer? JDS does not have a single pro boxing fight, only a dozen amateur matches.

And major factors why Cain manged to outstrike JDS were takedown danger and better cardio, JDS couldn't handle the pace Cain set. In my opinion you are overthinking this.

 

[Saskatoonmike**]

I think JDS can win with his current toolset. However you're right, if he mixes in some well timed knees and other strikes he will be able to better utilize his boxing because it will be more surprising. What he has to get better at is to either predict the shoot better or keep his hands up. He can not try to be Anderson and leave his hands down because he lacks the head movement/experience to matrix dodge.

Cain fought the perfect fight. Much props to him

the problem is that taking the risk to throw knees, kicks or punches actually makes it easier for the guy to get his td if you miss.

So that is the challenge. If you land those strikes you might back off and slow down the guy trying to grapple and pressure you. If you miss the strikes you play right into his game by helping him establish the td and control he wants and you want to avoid.

that is why Anderson starts off so much more tentative V grapplers then he does strikers. In the Sonnen2 fight he just went for it, knowing even if Sonnen got him down, nothing bad would happen other then Sonnen winning the round, and knowing if he did not 'go for it' Sonnen would likely get the td and win the round anyway.

 

[Polish Punisher]

Yes, this was proven when Leben pwned Andy.

Cain Velasquez is far more talented than Chris Leben. This is like comparing Michael Phelps to another swimmer who represented a 3rd world nation in swimming at the Olympics.

My thread wasnt about fighters with no technique and basic wrestling. It was about when elite well rounded MMA fighters with top level wrestling vs fighters who are elite strikers but come with one super sharp skill set.

 

[mkt]

haha i was about to say this thread title can be disproven with one name. anderson silva

Nope. Chael-Silva #1 was a good example of a similar approach working. However, it takes a high-level wrestler who can both threaten with TDs and execute TDs. A wild brawling striker certainly won't threaten Anderson.

 

[Polish Punisher]

Bro you have no clue what you are saying. You know jack shit about Boxing.

Not every boxer sets up with timing. Mike Tyson and Foreman were an example of this.

JDS lost because of incredibly bad boxing defense.

His hands were down the whole fight, show no head movements, no shoulder rolls. No defense period. Him throwing kicks would had made it worst he would had been taken down even more. And it was a technical Boxing move by Cain that started the beginning of the end for JDS. It was when he came in with a the right cross that drop JDS. No smothering in that sequence.

You clearly dont know what your talking about because this was an MMA fight not a boxing match. JDS hands were down because he was worried about the takedown something Professional Boxers dont have to worry about.

Sonnen vs Silva 1
Randleman vs Crocop 1

Examples of world class strikers being outstruck by wrestlers because they were worried about takedowns. And yes, Sonnen juiced his ass off in the first fight but it still is an example of a talented striker being caught off guard by wrestler.

 

[Polish Punisher]

High level boxer? JDS does not have a single pro boxing fight, only a dozen amateur matches.

And major factors why Cain manged to outstrike JDS were takedown danger and better cardio, JDS couldn't handle the pace Cain set. In my opinion you are overthinking this.

As far as MMA goes, JDS has high level boxing. This isnt a 12 rounds rounds of 3min rounds where fighters wear huge gloves and cant do anything either throw hands.

Boxing fans are in the same boat K-1 and Kickboxing fans were 10 years ago before Pride fighters embarassed the best K-1 fighters on the planet.

Boxing is a one dimensional sport. Even if a top pro boxer was able to transition to MMA and be succeful, they would have to change just about everything from their stance(otherwise die by low kicks) to the way they carry their hands, etc.

MMA boxing is not the same as sport boxing. Take the time to figure that out.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

Cardio and aggressiveness won the day for Cain here, fought an unbelievable fight.

 

[AP_RESURRECTION]

There are examples that go each way. Relax dude

its well known to brawl a boxer - but yo have to be good at what youre doing, meaning use good head movement and have a good chin - finally, hit the other guy hard to fck their sht up

all those things happened as well

 

[Polish Punisher]

TS, tell that to muhammed Ali.

Ali never fought a wrestler under MMA rules.

Oh wait, yes he kinda did and the wrestler was not allowed to shoot double leg, single leg or clinch takedowns and Ali got beat(was called a draw, yet he couldnt hurt his opponent at all) and had his leg bruised up by a wrestler who didnt even know how to throw a proper round house kick.

 

[Soul Slasher**]

You clearly dont know what your talking about because this was an MMA fight not a boxing match. JDS hands were down because he was worried about the takedown something Professional Boxers dont have to worry about.

I have no clue what I am talking about? You moron, JDS got drop by a overhand from a wrestler because he kept his hands down and had no head movements.

I am not saying he kept them down to not defend punches. But Rampage, Couture and many others prove you can defend takedowns by keeping your hands up. It don't have to be a Boxing match. That is just a dumb cop out.

JDS was over confident in his boxing thinking he would not get hit by any wrestler. He said it himself, that he could knock out the Klitschkos in a Boxing match. If that is not being over confident than I don't know what is.

Sonnen vs Silva 1
Randleman vs Crocop 1

Examples of world class strikers being outstruck by wrestlers because they were worried about takedowns. And yes, Sonnen juiced his ass off in the first fight but it still is an example of a talented striker being caught off guard by wrestler.

Cro Cop was a world class Kickboxer. Not Boxer. Big difference.

And basically al you have done is prove my poiunt as to why keeping your hands down may cost you big time. Duh.

 

[zcxhvcdh**]

Ali never fought a wrestler under MMA rules.

Oh wait, yes he kinda did and the wrestler was not allowed to shoot double leg, single leg or clinch takedowns and Ali got beat(was called a draw, yet he couldnt hurt his opponent at all) and had his leg bruised up by a wrestler who didnt even know how to throw a proper round house kick.

"couldn't hurt his opponent at all"
You weren't allowed to punch an opponent on the ground, and so the wrestler spent the entire fight in the butt scoot position. The rules to that fight were ridiculous. Don't even bring it up.

 

[FallIntoTheRope**]

Anderson can handle pressure because he has a mean mean clinch. He also has excellent striking defense, something JDS lacks.

 

[zcxhvcdh**]

Anderson can handle pressure because he has a mean mean clinch. He also has excellent striking defense, something JDS lacks.

He also doesn't take much damage when he does get taken down.

 

[Soul Slasher**]

As far as MMA goes, JDS has high level boxing. This isnt a 12 rounds rounds of 3min rounds where fighters wear huge gloves and cant do anything either throw hands.

Boxing gloves worn by HWs in pro Boxing are only six ounces more than MMA gloves. Wow that is so huge.

What the fuck does the difference in sports has to do with anything? A style is a style. Even in MMA, JDS's Boxing is not all that great. His defense is horrible. You get it?

Boxing fans are in the same boat K-1 and Kickboxing fans were 10 years ago before Pride fighters embarassed the best K-1 fighters on the planet.

Huh? When has a MMA fighter out struck a TOP 100 Pro Boxer? Never. The last time a top ten MMA fighter fought a retired washed up Boxer who was once a upon a time "highly ranked" was Sylvia vs Mercer. How did that go?

Boxing is a one dimensional sport. Even if a top pro boxer was able to transition to MMA and be succeful, they would have to change just about everything from their stance(otherwise die by low kicks) to the way they carry their hands, etc.

MMA boxing is not the same as sport boxing. Take the time to figure that out.

Stupid cop out. Very pathetic actually. So JDS's horrible Boxing defense can be justified as it being "MMA Boxing" Okay. So by your logic, MMA boxing has no defense against punches. The only way to block with MMA Boxing is with your face. No guard up, no head movements, no shoulder rolls, nothing right?

You want to know who has solid MMA Boxing? Anderson Silva. He uses head movements and rolls off with punches. How bout Rampage? He has his guard up in a peek a boo stance and uses head movements.

A jab is a jab, a cross is a cross. A counter to a slip of a jab is a counter to a slip of a jab. The difference is not big. Only geeks who never train in their lives would say stupid shit like that.

 

[FallIntoTheRope**]

He also doesn't take much damage when he does get taken down.

Yup, he has some pretty underrated BJJ.

 

[Soul Slasher**]

Ali never fought a wrestler under MMA rules.

Oh wait, yes he kinda did and the wrestler was not allowed to shoot double leg, single leg or clinch takedowns and Ali got beat(was called a draw, yet he couldnt hurt his opponent at all) and had his leg bruised up by a wrestler who didnt even know how to throw a proper round house kick.

That was not a MMA fight. WTF are you talking about. The kicks thrown by Inoki were from the ground and Ali could not hit him while Inoki was on the ground.

Holy shit the pathetic desperate shit Boxing haters will say on here. It's sad really. No different than idiots saying MMA is "gay porn".

 

[flanellograf]

The whole Rogan-mantra of keeping the hands low is pretty much bs in mma. Look at how boxing looked before the huge pillows were introduced - hands low, relying on headmovement and clinching - and that's without kicks or takedowns to worry about.
You just can't cover up as effectively with small gloves, and even though it still does help, especially the elbow cover, other things are more important.

About the fight: JDS could for sure win with his current skillset, but he needs to stop with the weightlifting and focus on cardio, and not be so extremely worried to get taken down.
I also think he was nervous defending his belt, and Cain's pace and the punch all resulted in an adrenaline dump after that first round.