1. The official Sherdog Store is back! Check it out! » Discuss it here! »

Agreeing on the GOAT criteria

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by munchie, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. munchie Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    47
    Instead of trying to make a case why X fighter is the GOAT, I thought it would be interesting to try and create objective criteria for GOAT selection, and then see who stacks us best against those criteria. I know this wouldn't be 100% objective, because if I were to favor a specific candidate, then I'd be likely to float his strengths as a criteria, but I'll try and be as impartial as possible and would appreciate anyone who'd like to chime in.

    Here we go - GOAT criteria:

    MMA Fights (maximum 3 points)
    - 30 or more - 3 points
    - 25 or more - 2 points
    - 20 or more - 1 point

    MMA Record (maximum 6 points)
    - Undefeated - 6 points
    - Defeated once - 4 points
    - Defeated twice or more - 2 point

    UFC Fights (maximum 3 points)
    - 20 or more - 3 points
    - 15 or more - 2 points
    - 10 or more - 1 point

    UFC Record (maximum 12 points)
    - Undefeated - 12 points
    - Defeated once - 6 points
    - Defeated twice or more - 3 points

    Title fights won (maximum 12 points)
    - 10 or more - 12 points
    - 5 or more - 6 points
    - 3 or more - 3 points

    Wins against ranked (top 10) opponents (maximum 6 points)
    - 10 or more - 12 points
    - 5 or more - 6 points
    - 3 or more - 3 points

    Finish Rate (maximum 6 points)
    - 80% and above - 6 points
    - 70% and above - 4 points
    - 60% and above - 2 points

    ----

    That's it. I actually haven't run these numbers on any candidate yet, so actually curious to see who wins by these criteria. In the follow-up threads I'll try to do the math and rank some of the contenders. Let's see who's the GOAT ;) At least according to this set of rules...
     
  2. Leinster Rugby Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    6,535
    Likes Received:
    2,207
    Location:
    Dublin and Wicklow (Wicklow's beautiful)
    Hairline - 50 points
     
    BooBoyMan likes this.
  3. Wreckless Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2020
    Messages:
    2,523
    Likes Received:
    9,866
    Oh not this shit again.

    "Objective" criteria doesn't exist on Sherdog.

    There's a pinned GOAT thread. That's the only thread we need.
     
    accolyte1022 likes this.
  4. munchie Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    47
    Let's start with GSP

    MMA Fights (maximum 3 points)
    - 30 or more - 3 points
    - 25 or more - 2 points
    - 20 or more - 1 point

    MMA Record (maximum 6 points)
    - Undefeated - 6 points
    - Defeated once - 4 points
    - Defeated twice or more - 2 points

    UFC Fights (maximum 3 points)
    - 20 or more - 3 points
    - 15 or more - 2 points
    - 10 or more - 1 point

    UFC Record (maximum 12 points)
    - Undefeated - 12 points
    - Defeated once - 6 points
    - Defeated twice or more - 3 points

    Title fights won (maximum 12 points)
    - 10 or more - 12 points
    - 5 or more - 6 points
    - 3 or more - 3 points

    Wins against ranked (top 10) opponents (maximum 6 points)
    - 10 or more - 12 points
    - 5 or more - 6 points
    - 3 or more - 3 points

    Finish Rate (maximum 6 points)
    - 80% and above - 6 points
    - 70% and above - 4 points
    - 60% and above - 2 points
    * only 54% finish rate, so not points

    Total: 34 points

     
  5. accolyte1022 LONER Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    29,367
    Likes Received:
    9,307
    Location:
    Zone of Alienation
    Champ Champ = 37 trillion points
     
  6. Bamboozled Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Messages:
    14,075
    Likes Received:
    3,534
    Location:
    Grinding in the Film Room
    Here's a crietia

    Fedor = GOAT

    Not Fedor = Good try and respectable but not GOAT
     
  7. mirko>anyone Red Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    8,568
    Likes Received:
    6,115
    Location:
    Greencastle
    It should be updated fresh every year though.

    I have zero problem with GSP winning, and in fact I may have voted for him (dont remember), but that poll was created on the heels of his official retirement after winning the MW belt. The timing of the poll can change things drastically. Khabib would probably be ahead of Anderson in votes if we had a new poll today. If you ask in 6 months, the dust will have settled a bit and he'd likely receive a few less votes.

    I agree with your post though. We should legit get rid of GOAT threads, or at the very least consolidate them.
     
    Wreckless likes this.
  8. BRASIL WAND Banned Banned

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    21,862
    Likes Received:
    15,773
    Location:
    Inside ATT's one and only Main Academy
    Criteria #1: Don’t tap to strikes from Matt Serra


    <{yahyou}>
     
    cade187 likes this.
  9. FrankDux Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,895
    Likes Received:
    3,529
    Location:
    In that ass
    GOAT criteria

    First name must be: Fedor
    Last name must be: Emelianenka
     
  10. cade187 I'm not a part of your system.

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    10,994
    Likes Received:
    3,576
    Location:
    Reppin' the 902
    People won’t agree on criteria because people tend to assign more value to things that support their favourite goat’s claim to the title.
     
    Wreckless likes this.
  11. Wreckless Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2020
    Messages:
    2,523
    Likes Received:
    9,866
    This.
     
  12. JPM1223 Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2012
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    USA
    THIS, all else have to bow down and realize they are not on the thrown
    [​IMG]
     
    Bamboozled likes this.
  13. MMAudit Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    964
    no subtraction for PED Violations !!! wtf

    also i don't like the formula because criteria #1,#2, and #6 !!

    with that said ...

    this test is flawed


    <Deported1>
     
  14. IsNormal Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2016
    Messages:
    3,616
    Likes Received:
    607
    Ranking people according to a system looks fun, doesn't matter if the system isn't perfect.
    So don't pay much attention to my complaints about the point system.
    But I still gotta do nit-pick a bit below here :D
    I think this depends on when you lost.
    I don't care about rookie losses.
    I only care if people are undefeated in the big leagues.
    If someone has been undefeated for two decades in the UFC, I don't give a damn if they had two losses 25 years ago in The Shelbyville Bum League.
    I wouldn't care if it turned out Khabib had lost twice in some local russian league in 2007.
    Way worse to lose in the middle of your career.

    Also: I don't think it makes sense to go strictly by the record book.
    Let's not count Jone's DQ. It doesn't impact my perception of how good he is, and I don't count it as a "defeat" as no one beat him up.
    I'd rather count the Reyes fight as a loss as 9/10 MMA outlets thought it was
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
  15. Goatbib Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2020
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    1,523
    Criteria with UFC record is unfair to somebody like Fedor who fought in the toughest HW division outside of UFC. But yeah the criteria cannot be perfect. Good job though. It will be interesting to see who comes out on top.

    You can refine the criteria by including
    1) Championships in multiple divisions
    2) P4p opponents beaten
    3) Domination over a length of time or fights as in the long winning streaks
    4) Losing dominantly should lose points as opposed to close fights
    5) lots of wins dominanly should win points, though finishing rate somewhat takes care of it
    6) Winning by variety of methods should win some points because it shows a bit of overall good game
    7) Beating opponents in their prime should score more and losing while green should lose less points. But then prime is subjective so probably won't work
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.