Advantages of Japanese Jiu Jitsu vs BJJ ?

Joe_Armstrong

Joe_Armstrong

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I always thought Japanese JJ a more versatile skill than BJJ.

Can someone point out thse pro's and cons of both styles ?
 
The problem is Japanese jiu jitsu is that any random person with the most basic of competency can (and has) opened clubs teaching 'insert name here' jiu-jitsu - so there is zero quality control - you could end up training anything from the most bullshido of self defence to something semi-legitimate.
 
Joe_Armstrong said:
I always thought Japanese JJ a more versatile skill than BJJ.

Can someone point out thse pro's and cons of both styles ?
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You have a point.
It you can ensure proper quality control then it is more well rounded as long as they do some live training and randori which was Judos innovation.

BJJ is basically useless vs more than one person or vs weapons and puts you in artificial situations that could get you killed in real life like going to the ground where bystanders may just boot you in the head with steel toe boots.
You can always just refine your techniques for a few good functional holds and chokes by watching the hundreds of vids out there nowadays if you want some added BJJ input.

Something like this may be what you are after.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jitsu_Foundation
 
I have an early 2000's type question.

Would you guys say that BJJ is basically just Elite Level Judo Ne-Waza with some strikes added in ?
 
Find me one elite grappler or fighter that uses JJJ as their primary style. That tells you everything you need to know about it’s usefulness.
 
I prefer Israeli jew-jitsu.
 
RemyR said:
Find me one elite grappler or fighter that uses JJJ as their primary style. That tells you everything you need to know about it’s usefulness.
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And yet this is the kind of argument that would have been made about Shotokan in 2005...
 
EndlessCritic said:
And yet this is the kind of argument that would have been made about Shotokan in 2005...
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fair enough point.

I still say JJJ is largely useless when kosen judo and bjj already exist.
 
Probably Tomiki Aikido(Kansetsu Waza), Judo(Nage/Ne Waza) and Kyokushin(Atemi Waza) cross trained is the closest you'll find to JJJ.

There's probably not enough lineage instruction across the world to find a community of practitioners that can produce highly trained and competent people.

When you get to a certain level, if you look closely Judo has most of the techniques in its curriculum. Atemi Waza is about the only area missing in this grading example.

 
JJJ has all the advantages here: you get your belts faster, you don't have to train as much, you don't have to stay fit, you get to learn 10-12 words of pidgin Japanese, it's all fun and no work!
 
Joe_Armstrong said:
I always thought Japanese JJ a more versatile skill than BJJ.

Can someone point out thse pro's and cons of both styles ?
Click to expand...
To be fair, I think jjj does have some things bjj doesn’t. Most jjj teaches some striking while most bjj doesn’t. Maybe some old school bjj may teach the front kick to body lock take down.

Jjj probably teaches break falling better because jjj probably does way more throws. Jjj is probably cheaper and you’re less likely to get hurt. But bjj have more alive training and way better ground techniques
 
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As @EndlessCritic and @efficientjudo note, JJJ is a broad term and varies wildly by school. Curriculum includes techniques found in Judo, Aikido and Karate. Obviously if you master all of those, you'd have a complete style for competition or street but more often than not, the instructor just knows a lot of techniques very poorly.

But some JJJ guys are legit with significant competition/LEO/high dan Judo rank or other applied experience. One guy I remember was a salt of the earth former military, former rodeo rider, JJJ coral belt who was also 3rd or 4th dan Judo IIRC. He taught JJJ after our Judo practices. He must have been late 50's but one of his much younger, bigger assistant instructors made the mistake of calling him out. The next day the younger guy had a black eye. Apparently they had settled it in the ring with the senior instructor beating the shit out of him.

Another guy I trained with was 7th dan aikido but identified as aiki-jutsu. He introduced me to BJJ in 1991 (he was purple under Rigan Machado) and RIP because I see he just passed away:

https://eccunion.com/features/2021/05/12/martial-artist-and-boxing-instructor-at-ecc-dies-at-79/

This dude was probably the realest martial artist I've ever met and dispensed with tradition - he only cared what worked. In late 80's/early 90's he was teaching proto-MMA to LEOs as a mix of boxing, muay thai, aikido wrist come-alongs, Judo throws and BJJ on the ground. I used to go to grappling open mats at his dojo after his aikido classes were over (ironically it was mostly wrestlers, Judo, BJJ guys with no interest in aikido who showed up).

According to this 1990 article from Black Belt magazine, the Japanese aikido federation refused to acknowledge his school in the 60's because he refused to wear a hakama. He's quoted as saying, "the hakama is a pain in the butt when you grapple on the ground." LMAO

https://books.google.com/books?id=5toDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA67&lpg=PA67&dq=mits yamashita&source=bl&ots=Of9lQnRhPH&sig=W_OcWG5W9enYCTlXVCuaSiUM2wc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kYoeVazbBsyegwTNnYLgBg&ved=0CF8Q6AEwDQ&fbclid=IwAR2nTKuiWRMfMdm2he9J7ZqZs7RsFiompJiWm4IPP6i4xR5tWt9V_PTRhRY#v=onepage&q=mits yamashita&f=false
 
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I see some posts here, doubting if the instructor in Japanese JJ is qualified.

What makes this a talking point. Because in my country Martial Arts
instructors are mostly capable people ?
 
Joe_Armstrong said:
That is terrible. In The Netherlands they take MA very seriously
and it takes atleast 10 years or more to get to brown belt.
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I won't presume to know anything about JJJ in the Netherlands but if you want relevance to a resisting opponent, I'd be wary of any school that doesn't do live rolling, standing randori and/or sparring. All legit JJJ gyms I've seen did this and/or were affiliated with competition Judo and/or extensive cross-training with wrestlers, kickboxers, BJJers, etc.

I'm also skeptical of time-in-grade requirements or overemphasis on belt rank in general. The best BJJ instructor I've had was officially only a purple belt at the time (plus Judo BB) but I saw him submit visiting BJJ BBs.

There are no bad martial arts, only good or bad martial artists. You call it JJJ, someone else calls it Gaidojitsu or SAFTA. Either way, those techniques have been done before under a different name.
 
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Why all the interest in JJJ?

What, BJJ discovering that wristlocks actually work?

No shit Sherlock!

There's a ton of other stuff that works as MMA "discovered".

I saw that thread a couple of months ago. Everyone mumbling about how "sneaky" or "unfair" wrist locks are, like leg locking was a decade ago. Leg locking is a similar mechanics as locking up the wrists/ankle, elbows/knees and it's just you guys are slow knuckledragging on your bellies so you can catch them relatively easily. It'll take a lot more ingenuity and athleticism to catch wrists and elbows, but when you get that good you'll start damaging each other to the point of not being able to train or breakfall bailing out of them and looking like the stuff you laugh at because it looks to "easy" or "compliant".

Wrist locks are fast and they are brutal leaving competitors little time to react defensively, that's why Kano Sensei took Kansetsu Waza out of competition but made sure they were trained for grading in the full art of Judo.

Alright that's my salty rant....because I had to take two days off of training for the week.....
 
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