Advantages/Disadvantages to Trapbar vs Conventional Deadlift

[DrBdan]

I might do some bodyweight circuit type stuff after the skill training but not really any other heavy lifting. I just want to maintain where my strength is right now since it isnt a weakness for me.

What kind of set x rep scheme would you suggest? How often do you think I can go with singles since its just 1x per week?

And for exercise selection im thinking:

1 Olympic lift
1 Lower Body
1 Upper Pull
1 Upper Push
+ any accessory work I need to do.

I'd probably just do a basic 3x5 rep scheme except for the oly lift that I would do 5x3 (sets x reps). Then adjust the volume and/or intensity depending on how you find it.

You could try rotating through various rep schemes each week e.g. 3x5, then 3x3 then 5x1 but that's probably over-thinking things if you are just looking to maintain strength.

 

[PCP]

I think the trapbar deadlift is more like a leg press than a squat

 

[PCP]

I'm glad you started this thread I was considering buying a trapbar and doing them within a week or two. With the way my training is scheduled I am only going to have time for one max strength session per week and figured doing trapbar deadlifts might be a good way to keep my gains from the traditional deadlift and squat. If not I can do them both in one session but i'd rather save my lower back while i'm doing alot of sparring. Any advice on this? Normally I would just cut the volume down and stay heavy.

I suggest alternating between max effort bench and max effort sq/dl. Choose one heavy barbell exercise (rotated each week) and work up to a 1-3RM, then 2 accessory exercises.

For bench ME, I suggest rotating between flat bench/2board/floor press/1board/inclines, using various grips.

For squat/deadlift ME, I suggest rack pulls, deadlifts from floor, DL against short minibands, good mornings, squats, box squats, and pin squats

 

[Origins]

Because it has the same advantage of being easier on the lower back, and the empahasis on leg drive as trapbar deads, but it's not dependant on having a trapbar, it's still a deadlift (and not a cross between a squat and DL), and with sumo (and pretty much every pull, and anytime you pick something up) the center of gravity is more forward than with trapbar deadlifts.

All that said, there's nothing "bad" about trapbar deadlifts. I could even see myself doing them as assistance if I thought it would help.

I ask because I am faced with kind of a deadlifting dilemma. Up until about two weeks ago, my deadlift had been progressing pretty well. Then one day when I was pulling I happened to look to my side at a mirror and noticed my lower back was rounding a lot more than I am comfortable with.

The last two deadlifting sessions I have fiddled around trying to figure out how to keep my back from rounding too much- pulling sumo, using lighter weight, different cues, etc. Due to my bitch-ass anthropometry, my back angle is pretty horizontal. This makes it harder to keep a somewhat flat/arched back. My back angle is a lot better on sumo, but it also feels weaker.

In your opinion, would someone faced with this dilemma, after doing his utmost to fix the problem with cues and stretching (which I am in the process of doing), eventually be better off building up their sumo strength and pulling that way or using a trap bar as the primary lift (albeit with the handles turned over to make it standard height)? I have access to a trap bar so that isn't a problem for me personally.

 

[Tosa]

I ask because I am faced with kind of a deadlifting dilemma. Up until about two weeks ago, my deadlift had been progressing pretty well. Then one day when I was pulling I happened to look to my side at a mirror and noticed my lower back was rounding a lot more than I am comfortable with.

The last two deadlifting sessions I have fiddled around trying to figure out how to keep my back from rounding too much- pulling sumo, using lighter weight, different cues, etc. Due to my bitch-ass anthropometry, my back angle is pretty horizontal. This makes it harder to keep a somewhat flat/arched back. My back angle is a lot better on sumo, but it also feels weaker.

In your opinion, would someone faced with this dilemma, after doing his utmost to fix the problem with cues and stretching (which I am in the process of doing), eventually be better off building up their sumo strength and pulling that way or using a trap bar as the primary lift (albeit with the handles turned over to make it standard height)? I have access to a trap bar so that isn't a problem for me personally.

Definetly pull sumo over trap bar DLs. But even if you do end up making sumo deads your main pull exercise, it's probably best to still include some kind of conventional pull, even if it's not especially heavy. Sumo is a very different lift, and it's new, so it's normal that it feels weaker. Don't worry about it. What's important is pulling with good technique, and that your sumo DL is improving.

My deadlift is similar, in that I pull with my hips rather high, and keeping my lower back from rounding can be challenging. What helped me enormously was deficit deads (3-6 inches, 10 total sets, including warm-ups. initially at 65% of my max DL), assuming you can do that without your lower back rounding (if you can keep a neutral back with less weight do that). Also additional emphasis on core work (GMs, reverse hyper and/or back extension, landmines and/or ab rollouts). You don't have to go nuts, maybe 3 exercises over the course of the week, but put in a solid effort on each of them.

 

[Endo]

I'd tried sitting with my hips high, but that put me almost parallel to the floor before I could keep my back straight comfortably.

My issue is that if I want to keep my back straight and actually use leg-drive, I sit with my ass parallel or below to the floor. I have short legs, and a very long torso with short(ish) arms. Sitting like that dramatically reduces the amount I can pull because it almost becomes a full squat trying to get off the floor and is very uncomfortable. Just being in that position fatigues my legs and lower back. And obviously, I cannot squat as much as I can pull so this is sort of a problem.

Well at the moment, I can probably squat more than I'm capable of pulling for a max. Which I find rather sad.

 

[Endo]

Tosa, when you stand sumo, are you able to lock out your legs or do you have to squat it off the floor?

Do you have any good form vids on the sumo, that you've come across in the past? I've been trying to learn it, but multiple sources always help.

 

[gspieler]

The benefits of tb deads and oly deads are basially the same. They are both effective whole-body strength builders that work primarily the posterior chain. Sure, slightly less lower back muscle activation in tb deads along with slighty more quad activation, but this is not a detriment to its overall qualities. It is still a a freeweight exercise that uses almost every major muscle group in your body to move the heaviest weights possible. If i do adequate number of sets/reps on tb deads, the day after i feel soreness, or just able to tell its been worked, in my mid-back, low-back, quads, abs, and strangley enough, my tris(must be the brutal iso-contraction when do 5-rep maxes). If anything, I would recommend working a dl progression between 2 to 3 variations that u r most comfortable with, so long as at least one is with a oly bar or tb if youre trying get stronger. As for sumo deads, this is just my personal preference, but i like to use as accessory work on leg day, if i have the energy. I do it in a moderate rep-range after doin heavy squats, and after comes the easier single-joint stuff. Ive found nothin better at hitting the glutes/inner thighs than sumo deads. Bottom line: tb deads are probably equally effective at building whole-body strength(unless ur competitive powerlifter), just work posterior chain slightly less. Experiment safely, and find what ur body responds best to.

 

[Endo]

Thanks bro.

 

[immovablestone]

My issue is that if I want to keep my back straight and actually use leg-drive, I sit with my ass parallel or below to the floor. I have short legs, and a very long torso with short(ish) arms. Sitting like that dramatically reduces the amount I can pull because it almost becomes a full squat trying to get off the floor and is very uncomfortable. Just being in that position fatigues my legs and lower back. And obviously, I cannot squat as much as I can pull so this is sort of a problem.

FWIW, I had this problem for ages (combined with slightly shorter legs, slightly longer torso), and am currently working to correct it, which is going very well. I had to reorient how I thought about the deadlift in general in order to correct the form, as well as drop the weight until the movements started to ingrain themselves.

I'll start by saying that I am in no way an expert, but this is where I've ended up after years and various coaching, and I find this preserves my lower spine.

When I've set, bar over laces with shoulder width stance, I bend down naturally with hips/knees, and grip the bar so my elbows are touching my knees sort of on the outside. Then I put on tension just to get the feel, I do this by anchoring back into my hamstrings and glutes while tightening my core and sort of "crunching my lower abdominals forward" if that makes sense, which sets my back and keeps it where it should be. From there I keep all that going and just take the big inhale into the gut, hold it, squeeze my shoulder-blades back, and power the heels down from that anchored position. I focus on putting as much pressure into my squeezing core as possible and once the bar is most of the way up my shins I push the hips through while maintaining the shoulder-blade squeeze until I've defied gravity.

I experience no rounding or undue pressure on my lower spine with manageable weights (~315) for low reps, and I plan to continue this and not push it until I feel comfortable upping the weight and going for PR's. I do high volume stuff with ~225lbs during crossfit workouts sometimes, and this really helps reinforce the movement. My previous 1RM with a shitty conventional form was 495@230 body weight, I plan to eclipse that poundage at a lower body weight.

I was pulling sumo for a while, before getting into this current conventional groove, due to it having less impact on my lower spine, but there just is nothing like the feeling of a conventional deadlift when done properly. Squats, Deadlifts, and overhead presses = Crom worship

 

[Tosa]

Tosa, when you stand sumo, are you able to lock out your legs or do you have to squat it off the floor?

Neither. While you do use leg drive to get the bar off the ground, don't think of it as a squat (although it's potentially similar to a wide stance squat).

Do you have any good form vids on the sumo, that you've come across in the past? I've been trying to learn it, but multiple sources always help.

The second half of this video talks about sumo technique:


There's also this article:
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/sumo.htm

Also, certain things hold true for both sumo deads, and conventional, like you don't want your hips to rise faster than the bar or first, and you want to develop tension on the bar first, and that you're not jerking the bar off the ground.

 

[Gold182]

I have short legs, and a very long torso with short(ish) arms.

Just switch your deadlift to sumo if it feels good for you my training partner also a sherdog poster here MIAB had the same problem as you that if he wants his back flat he was sitting way to low so he switched to sumo and at first he found it hard but you get use to it but now his sumo deadlift is way higher then his old conventional deadlift.

Edit: Its Gierrod

 

[Endo]

I pull almost into my legs on sumo, so I cannot say I've quite mastered it. I take driving it up the leg to a whole nother level....