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Adapting Sheiko/using Russian principles

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by ssjmawson, Oct 29, 2010.

  1. ssjmawson

    ssjmawson White Belt

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    I've been running Sheiko #29 for the past 3 weeks, generally I like the program but the volume of squats/deadlifts (and their variations) has been giving me a sore back after sessions.
    I definitely prefer the 'same lift on multiple days' style of Sheiko to say, 5/3/1 but am looking for something with a little less deads/squat volume. Does anyone have experience modifying the Sheiko routines or know of anything in a similar vein?
     
  2. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    First, are you getting enough food, sleep? etc. Are you doing the GMs and lunges, but keeping them light? Did you start with accurate or conservative maxes? How often were you squatting and deadlifting before starting Sheiko? What's your conditioning and GPP like? These are all things (and there's more) that would effect how Sheiko would work for you.

    The simplest way would be to cut out the second round of the various lifts. This isn't entirely accurate, since while reducing the volume, it increases the average intensity, and one of Sheiko's principles is to have an average intensity of 70% +/- 2%...although on occassion it is lower. I've also heard of doing this, but then taking the top sets of the second round, and doing them after the top sets of the first round...Honestly though this isn't something I've tried, and there's probably better solutions.

    Second, #39 has a volume slightly lower, which may work better. There's also the Dave Bates (and no, I don't mean Dave Tate) Sheiko routine...basically it's a 13 week routine for someone who's never done Sheiko like volumes/frequencies, so that they can ease into it. Here's a link: Sheiko 13 Week Workout

    Third, Sheiko allows you to adjust the intensity +/- 5% depending on how you're feeling. So if necessary, reduce the weight. You're also allowed to reduce the number of sets if things feel heavy that day, but you should try and avoid reducing both intensity and number of sets.

    Fourth, making use of variations of lifts helps. You don't have to do Sheiko exactly as written, in fact Sheiko himself tells you to "be creative" and that his routines are just examples based on his principles. So if instead of low bar squats all the time, you do some high bar, box squats, pause squats it'll help keep things fresh (just remember to adjust the weights approprately).

    Fifth, although this would require some time, effort and math on your part...but you could write a lower volume version yourself. In this post I share much of what I know about Sheiko: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/44282787-post543.html, So assuming you're good with numbers, know your lifting, and don't mind reading all that, plus read through the portion of Sheiko's book that's translated on EliteFTS (I believe the non translated portion consists mostly of information regarding technique, lift variations, assistance exercises, and sample routines) it's something you could try.

    Also, what might also possibly be of interest is this Surovetsky routine:
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RUvZfHbKOU8/TKE42pwq9II/AAAAAAAAAAc/iLnj8t7w3bk/s1600/Surovetsky+template.bmp. First, days 1-6 are done over 2 weeks, and second, it'd be good to use conservative maxes...a weight you could hit anytime you went into the gym would be good. You could use Sheiko for bench numbers, look up a Surovetsky bench routine, or something else entirely.
     
  3. ssjmawson

    ssjmawson White Belt

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    First of all, thanks for what's probably the best reply to a post I've ever had :D

    I've been keeping the assistance relatively light, although on looking back I imagine my good mornings should probably have been done with just the bar, at least until I had a better grasp of the program.

    I was using accurate maxes, found by giving myself a deload week after my last cycle of 5/3/1 and hitting maxes on M/W/F for the three lifts respectively. Being a bit more conservative would probably be beneficial.

    I'll look into writing my own version, will post it if I do so that people can have a look and point out any mistakes. I've also been looking into the Korte 3x3, which seems kinda similar to the Russian style of programming. Probably more similar to the Surotevsky template you posted than Sheiko.
     
  4. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    The Korte 3x3 makes use of linear periodization, in other words, you'll spend a lot of time doing light stuff, and it's gradually get heavier. This may work well for you, although some people find that much time off from heavy work detrimental. It's also a set in stone routine, and is not flexible like Sheiko.

    Also, I should have mentioned this in my first post, but forgot: week 3 is probably the hardest week...after that you'll be on the way to acclimating to the Sheiko. So you could continue, reducing the intenisty or volume in week 4 as needed, deload for a week, and run another 4 weeks of #29 or #39.

    If you do decide to write your own routine, let me know and I'll give more specific thoughts on how someone might do so.
     
  5. ssjmawson

    ssjmawson White Belt

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    Well I'm off on holiday next week, so I get a free week off to recover form the 3rd week anyways. I'll see how it goes, will probably run a cycle of 37 or 30 after I finish 29. If I experience the same problems then I'll design a new program, although I might design one anyway for practice and criticism.
     
  6. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    If you're having trouble recovering from #29, don't run #30. It's almost 30% more volume than #29. #37 isn't quite as bad, just ~10% more volume. IMO, #29 again, #39 or the Dave Bates routine would be your best bets.
     
  7. ssjmawson

    ssjmawson White Belt

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    Cheers, I'll run 29 again then. If all goes well with it next time then I'll do 37 and hopefully 32 to re-calc my maxes. I can at least use the second run through 29 to get more understanding of where I'm weak.
     
  8. KILL KILL

    KILL KILL Gold Belt

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    When I was much younger, 29 was the only one I could handle.
     

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