ACWA Catch Wrestling Tournament, Oct 9th!

How many wrestling classes you've attended now? More than 10? Robbie, you're seriously trying to educate someone like Barnett about catch wrestling when you can't wrestle for shit.
I'm not lecturing anybody, and how would you know if whether or not I can't wrestle for s***? I think you deliberately ignored everything I just said

Especially with how much respect I showed Josh, and the acknowledgement of everything he has done for this sport! And I know the difference between Wrestling and submission fighting. And the time I spent up the snakepit Wigan where Roy told me that the pin was king, of course it's not the only way to win in Catch!

But resorting to ad hominem attacks is going off topic,
How many wrestling classes you've attended now? More than 10? Robbie, you're seriously trying to educate someone like Barnett about catch wrestling when you can't wrestle for shit.
Also when I say a promotion it will only put on Catch Wrestling events not teaching, grading, seminars or anything like the usual catch organisations do!

And I'm very close in securing backers who will help me fund cash prizes not meager sums like a hundred bucks which most top wrestlers and grapplers I've asked about it will only compete for money.

And most of them won't get out of bed for 100 bucks, and IF I use that word as have to find someone to back my promotion. As Karl Gotch said "Talk is cheap, ONLY MONEY BUYS WHISKY" You can't do anything without money in the first place!
 
How many wrestling classes you've attended now? More than 10? Robbie, you're seriously trying to educate someone like Barnett about catch wrestling when you can't wrestle for shit.
I'm not lecturing anybody, and how would you know if whether or not I can't wrestle for s***? I think you deliberately ignored everything I just said

Especially with how much respect I showed Josh, and the acknowledgement of everything he has done for this sport! And I know the difference between Wrestling and submission fighting. And the time I spent up the snakepit Wigan where Roy told me that the pin was king, of course it's not the only way to win in Catch!

But resorting to ad hominem attacks is going off topic,
I very well might. I appreciate your class in referring me pulling something out of a magician's hat rather than say, my backside.
I don't want to resort to ad hominem attacks is my reason I'm being respectful! And you haven't resorted to it either which I very much appreciate Jeremy
 
Loved the rules, Josh. I think that having more possibilities to finish – in that case, pinning and submitting– a fight makes more interesting for the common folk and competitors.
 
I very well might. I appreciate your class in referring me pulling something out of a magician's hat rather than say, my backside.

No worries Just tried to remain some semblance of class as most people on these forums like to use profanity a lot!
 
I appreciate it, my friend.
My honest thing is why Josh one of my heroes, supports a fake like Jake!

My vision to save real catch wrestling is to get good enough to coach, then transition Amateur Wrestlers to Catch! Easiest transition that could save our sport and stop it turning into a bjj ruleset because that's the road it's going down!
I'm just here to try and save it, it would be a shame to let it die!
 
My honest thing is why Josh one of my heroes, supports a fake like Jake!
Well, maybe it isn't something to worry about. Barnett is just promoting a competition, he's not promoting Jake Shannon or biting off the head of anyone who criticizes him.
 
Did I say touch pin Jeremy? No I didn't I said in Freestyle and Folkstyle if you stay on your back with your shoulders pinned the match is over no matter what! You can't body scissor in Freestyle or Folkstyle not from bottom as I'm from UK we don't have Folkstyle wrestling only Freestyle!

If you're on your back with shoulders pinned then you're pinned it doesn't matter If you have an arm bar locked in! The goal in Catch Wrestling is to Pin or Submit your opponent! The only reason Josh is having this change of rules is because Fake Shannon wants to ingratiate Catch to the BJJ community because a lot of the bjj community think the pin is BS!

As I know the ACWA is affiliated with Scientific Wrestling, which means they use that ridiculous rules etc! Where does it say that historically Jeremy in Catch Wrestling historically if you're on your back with a submission locked in you're not pinned??

Or are you going to pull another newspaper article out of your magicians hat As to try and justify it!


Josh, like any organizer, can use rules he sees fit, to produce the action he sees fit.

For instance, the most popular grappling sport in the world, judo, has wins by pin; it also happens a player would need to break an opponent's leg holds to get the pin. There's reasonable arguments for such a median.

A pin is supposed to represent dominant control over the opponent; or more specifically, putting the opponent in chancery; a position where he is in danger from you, but you are not in danger from him. If you have a finishing hold on an opponent, then he is in danger from you, not you in danger from him.

There are also some reasonable exceptions. For instance, again using the example of judo, there was a rule that went something along the lines of, if someone has a hold on you on the ground, and you lifted him up above your waist height, the action would be stopped, and the lifted awarded with a score. (Im not sure if that rule is still in place in the way, shape, or form, but the general sentiment was a good one.)

It seems like there isn't any reasonable argument here for why your take would be more beneficial, just empty signaling over some private notion of brand affiliation.
 
Well, maybe it isn't something to worry about. Barnett is just promoting a competition, he's not promoting Jake Shannon or biting off the head of anyone who criticizes him.

You did just ignore what I said completely didn't you
Josh is one of my heroes, but I question how he couldn't evenbbeat Ian Jones who is student of
Josh, like any organizer, can use rules he sees fit, to produce the action he sees fit.

For instance, the most popular grappling sport in the world, judo, has wins by pin; it also happens a player would need to break an opponent's leg holds to get the pin. There's reasonable arguments for such a median.

A pin is supposed to represent dominant control over the opponent; or more specifically, putting the opponent in chancery; a position where he is in danger from you, but you are not in danger from him. If you have a finishing hold on an opponent, then he is in danger from you, not you in danger from him.

There are also some reasonable exceptions. For instance, again using the example of judo, there was a rule that went something along the lines of, if someone has a hold on you on the ground, and you lifted him up above your waist height, the action would be stopped, and the lifted awarded with a score. (Im not sure if that rule is still in place in the way, shape, or form, but the general sentiment was a good one.)

It seems like there isn't any reasonable argument here for why your take would be more beneficial, just empty signaling over some private notion of brand affiliation.

Pretty much sure you completely dismissed everything i said about the ruleset! That If you have an active submission and you're on your back and your shoulders you can't be pinned because you have an active submission is complete rubbish!

My question of why such a legend like Josh Barnett is supporting Scientific Wrestling and not Catch-Wrestling as a whole! That's my issue as I have no personal involvement with any particular "brand affiliation" as you called it.

And Catch-Wrestling is because of these massively ridiculous Rule set that our sport may just become just another No Gi BJJ ruleset...

And that's just sad!
 
Yes i did completely dismiss it; you've made loud assertions but haven't articulated any basis for those assertions.
Yes, I did I explained about the "If they have an active submission, then they can't be pinned" principle.

I'll literally leave you the YouTube link where Luis Ojeda explains the rules where he says exactly what I quoted
Official rules as well for King Of Catch ruleset, hope you'll quit embarrassing yourself!
 
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My honest thing is why Josh one of my heroes, supports a fake like Jake!

My vision to save real catch wrestling is to get good enough to coach, then transition Amateur Wrestlers to Catch! Easiest transition that could save our sport and stop it turning into a bjj ruleset because that's the road it's going down!
I'm just here to try and save it, it would be a shame to let it die!


Ripper, do I know you personally or have we ever had any personal or professional dealings together?

Honestly, I work harder and do more to provide opportunities for people passionate about catch-as-catch-can than and other person on the planet.

Curious why the ad hominems against me?

I understand, you don't have to like me, but if you rail against ad hominems in this very thread, then libel me based upon hearsay when you've never actually met, talked, or worked with me it seems unfair. Maybe even hypocritical, I mean, calling someone fake from behind a fake screen name? This must be Robbie Burrows, lol

Anyway, hope you consider stopping the libel, I am sure there's a very good reason real top cacc guys like Barnett, Melanson, Billy Robinson, Karl Gotch, Wade Schalles, Gene Lebell, Erik Paulson, Dick Cardinal, Brandon Ruiz, et al have wholeheartedly supported my efforts for the sport.

Thanks! Back on topic, everyone please get to and support The Warmaster's epic CACC tournament!!!!!! Please share videos and pics!
 
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Ripper, do I know you personally or have we ever had any personal or professional dealings together?

Honestly, I work harder and do more to provide opportunities for people passionate about catch-as-catch-can than and other person on the planet.

Curious why the ad hominems against me? Thanks!

I understand, you don't have to like me, but if you rail against ad hominems in this very thread, then libel me based upon hearsay when you've never actually met, talked, or worked with me it seems unfair. Maybe even hypocritical, I mean, calling someone fake from behind a fake screen name?

Anyway, not sure why the libel but I do hope you can join real top cacc guys like Barnett, Melanson, Billy Robinson, Karl Gotch, Wade Schalles, Dick Cardinal, et al that have supported my efforts for the sport. Thanks.
Ripper, do I know you personally or have we ever had any personal or professional dealings together?

Honestly, I work harder and do more to provide opportunities for people passionate about catch-as-catch-can than and other person on the planet.

Curious why the ad hominems against me? Thanks!

I understand, you don't have to like me, but if you rail against ad hominems in this very thread, then libel me based upon hearsay when you've never actually met, talked, or worked with me it seems unfair. Maybe even hypocritical, I mean, calling someone fake from behind a fake screen name?

Anyway, not sure why the libel but I do hope you can join real top cacc guys like Barnett, Melanson, Billy Robinson, Karl Gotch, Wade Schalles, Dick Cardinal, et al that have supported my efforts for the sport. Thanks.

You're living off the memory
Ripper, do I know you personally or have we ever had any personal or professional dealings together?

Honestly, I work harder and do more to provide opportunities for people passionate about catch-as-catch-can than and other person on the planet.

Curious why the ad hominems against me?

I understand, you don't have to like me, but if you rail against ad hominems in this very thread, then libel me based upon hearsay when you've never actually met, talked, or worked with me it seems unfair. Maybe even hypocritical, I mean, calling someone fake from behind a fake screen name? This must be Robbie Burrows, lol

Anyway, hope you consider stopping the libel, I am sure there's a very good reason real top cacc guys like Barnett, Melanson, Billy Robinson, Karl Gotch, Wade Schalles, Gene Lebell, Erik Paulson, Dick Cardinal, Brandon Ruiz, et al have wholeheartedly supported my efforts for the sport.

Thanks! Back on topic, everyone please get to and support The Warmaster's epic CACC tournament!!!!!! Please share videos and pics!

Yeah, but Jake you quote all these people who are legit no doubt! But you yourself what have you won? In Wrestling, Grappling or MMA?

And who have yourself produced at a high level either, not borrowing from people who have attended your camps who were all ready accomplished!?

In Wrestling, Grappling or MMA??
 
Yes, I did I explained about the "If they have an active submission, then they can't be pinned" principle.

I'll literally leave you the YouTube link where Luis Ojeda explains the rules where he says exactly what I quoted
Official rules as well for King Of Catch ruleset, hope you'll quit embarrassing yourself!



Again, you're merely asserting a belief in pin over submission rather than pin or submission. But again you've yet to provide any decent rationale for such a curlicue in the first place. Whereas several people have already expressed rationales for Josh's choice in that particular matter, and he's not the only one whose used such a rule either.
 
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Again, you're merely asserting a belief in pin over submission rather than pin or submission. But again you've yet to provide any decent rationale for such a curlicue in the first place. Whereas several people have already expressed rationales for Josh's choice in that particular matter, and he's not the only one whose used such a rule either.
If you valued a pin as a control you should just score dominant controls. In modern wrestling ruleset like greco a pin is valued as a pure sporting objective. Catch wrestling only benefit is preserving the game part. For a ruleset that encourages takedowns and control you have UWW grappling.
 
You're living off the memory


Yeah, but Jake you quote all these people who are legit no doubt! But you yourself what have you won? In Wrestling, Grappling or MMA?

And who have yourself produced at a high level either, not borrowing from people who have attended your camps who were all ready accomplished!?

In Wrestling, Grappling or MMA??

Well, all those amazing people support me as a researcher, writer, educator, producer, and promoter because I have done my very best to provide the high fidelity and innovative information and opportunities.

I have never claimed to be a champion nor champion-creator, I am just a guy more obsessed with the subject of catch-as-catch-can than most, that has taken more massive action than most, for a longer time than most to provide a shit-ton of material, training, and competitive opportunities that a shit-ton of people have found immensely valuable.

That said, what have I accomplished?

Written a best selling book on the subject. Have you?

Apprenticed in coaching catch with Billy Robinson for 7 years. Have you?

Co-developed catch-as-catch-can curriculum for CoachingCatch.com with Billy Robinson. Have you?

Co-developed a ruleset for modern CACC with Karl Gotch. Have you?

Been mentored by Wade Schalles since 2004. Have you?

I suffered a catastrophic carotid dissection and subsequent mini-strokes in 2008 from neck cranks and chokes (due to my live of the sport) and included in a published study by the University of MN on dissections in grappling. Have you?

Earned my Shamrock Submission Fighting level 2 designation under Frank Shamrock. Have you?

Etc. etc...

Look, the point is if you put half the energy you put into slandering and libeling me, or detourning this post from away Josh's event, you might be able to add something additional to your resume besides "troll".

As I said before, I don't know you at all and I have never had personal dealings with you other than your slanders and ad hominems. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

I have only just begun. Honestly haters have been my fuel for 2 decades and going. My plans for 2022 and beyond are gigantic! More King of Catch Tournaments (), more innovative ShootProWrestling.com shows, more top tier training camps, etc.

Guys, if anyone is still reading this thread please support Josh's catch tournament by registering and sharing this link with anyone that might register!!

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/173197336897
 
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Yes, I did I explained about the "If they have an active submission, then they can't be pinned" principle.

I'll literally leave you the YouTube link where Luis Ojeda explains the rules where he says exactly what I quoted
Official rules as well for King Of Catch ruleset, hope you'll quit embarrassing yourself!

Josh Barnett actually participated in matches under the rule-set you favor though. That's a pretty huge way to support a rule-set, by lending your name to its roster of competitors. There's no evidence that he's trying to displace the rule-set you favor with a rule-set that features three-count pins, chokes and certain conditions for pinning. He's offering up competitions under a different rule-set in a different country which in all likelihood will have a totally different group of competitors. Is scholastic wrestling trying to displace freestyle? Is freestyle trying to displace Greco? Are any of the above trying to displace judo or sambo?

Nobody is trying to diminish catch-wrestling into a sub-set of BJJ rules; certainly it wouldn't make since for Jake Shannon to have such an agenda; that would only place him, whose name is connected with catch-wrestling, in an inferior position to people who promoted or put on BJJ events. You might disagree with the rule-set, but the intention behind it isn't to "colonize" catch-wrestling and turn it into a BJJ tributary.
 
If you valued a pin as a control you should just score dominant controls. In modern wrestling ruleset like greco a pin is valued as a pure sporting objective. Catch wrestling only benefit is preserving the game part. For a ruleset that encourages takedowns and control you have UWW grappling.


If you're old enough to remember watching Matt Hughes put people in a mounted crucifix, you can viscerally appreciate how a good pin is absolutely a fight ending proposition.

Not everyone who gets mount or some other dominant ride is going to knock their opponent out - but then not everyone who gets a choke hold puts their puts their opponent unconscious, or breaks their leg when they get saddle, and so on. We still understand these situations as fight ending propositions, and recognize ability to put the opponent in chancery in this manner as the highest expressions of grappling skill.
 
If you're old enough to remember watching Matt Hughes put people in a mounted crucifix, you can viscerally appreciate how a good pin is absolutely a fight ending proposition.

Not everyone who gets mount or some other dominant ride is going to knock their opponent out - but then not everyone who gets a choke hold puts their puts their opponent unconscious, or breaks their leg when they get saddle, and so on. We still understand these situations as fight ending propositions, and recognize ability to put the opponent in chancery in this manner as the highest expressions of grappling skill.
I think there's also value in having a format where people can pursue pins and submissions; BJJ'ists, wrestlers, etc. could only benefit from being able to interact with each other under a format that allows them to use their weapons against one another and potentially even pick up nuances from one another.
 
I think there's also value in having a format where people can pursue pins and submissions; BJJ'ists, wrestlers, etc. could only benefit from being able to interact with each other under a format that allows them to use their weapons against one another and potentially even pick up nuances from one another.

BUT MAH PURITY!

sorry

had to


PS: is this guy dan? if not, who's ripper?

Hope the tourney goes well Josh, throw video up soon as you have it!

Good luck, Buddha bless you.
 
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