Achilles Lock dangerous?

[Silverblur]

Hey i need some help here, im i begginner in brazilian Ju jitsu, but i was showing some people in my college martial atrs club some baisic submissions. Someone asked me what he could do from someone elses guard so I started to show him an achellies Lock, when another member who does BJJ (also a begginer) ran up and told me that I shouldn't show that to someone with no training because it is dangerous. Yet a few minuts earlier he was helping me show them armbars and key locks. As far as I know the achilliesd lock is no more dangerous than these submissions, in fact i always thought that it was a much more benign submission. Please give me some feed back.

 

[magbox]

The ankle lock is about as dangerous as any other joint lock. The danger your friend is refering to is probably the possiblity of the knee becoming twisted by either bad execution or a bad escape attempt.

 

[tomiscookin]

i'm just a beginner in bjj, but as far as i know, ankle locks, heel hooks and kneebars are far more dangerous and taught with much more caution than any armbar, kimura, americanas, etc. because those who are put in one... don't tend to feel the pain/tap out as quickly.

 

[Zankou]

The achilles lock isn't dangerous, but it's definitely possible that someone with no training would try to twist his leg out of it, thereby screwing up his own knee with a heel-hook effect. I can't imagine that somebody who hadn't trained the defense would have a good sense of how to clear the legs and come forward for the escape. So it might not be a good move to show people without training.

 

[Sambo234]

As long as you teach it as a straight lock with no twist involved it's probably one of the safer submissions.

 

[Silverblur]

The ankle lock is about as dangerous as any other joint lock. The danger your friend is refering to is probably the possiblity of the knee becoming twisted by either bad execution or a bad escape attempt.

isn't that just as possible with any submission?

 

[sproggdawg]

As long as you teach it as a straight lock with no twist involved it's probably one of the safer submissions.

Agreed, the straight ankle lock is one of the safest subs out there. Any sub can become more dangerous if you do something stupid to escape. Barring that, its a safe technique.

 

[magbox]

isn't that just as possible with any submission?

Im not 100% sure what you are asking. If you are asking is it possible to hurt yourself trying to escape then yes it is, but the question was specific to the ankle lock. Ankle locks are probably the least dangerous of the leg locks, but it is still not usually taught until later for a few reasons. Firstly, because of the lack of respect for submissions early in training increasing the likelyhood of knee injury. Secondly, passing the guard is important to learn and if you teach the ankle lock to early it becomes a big temptation to drop into it instead of improving position.

 

[rekka]

achilles not dangerous at all, bas once said he will never tap to it cus it doesnt break nothing, just pressure on tendon, heel hooks is very dangerous tho

 

[hayliks]

it's dangerous in that people who don't know what it is will try and turn to escape, and thus damage their knees. it can also be a damaging submission if the guy who applies it does it where they belly down.

 

[sproggdawg]

it's dangerous in that people who don't know what it is will try and turn to escape, and thus damage their knees. it can also be a damaging submission if the guy who applies it does it where they belly down.

I supposse it could also be dangerous if theres a huge strength disparity between two people. If someone with ridiculous strength applies the hold it could probably cause ligament damage. I didnt even think about applying it belly down. Ive never done it personally although I can imagine there is more leverage there.

 

[leao]

i dont know, ive had my ankle pop once and it sucked, didnt really hurt bad but my ankle felt really weak for a while and it felt weird to move the foot up and down.

 

[kishiro]

i have seen a guy at my club get his leg torn, because he thought there was not enough pressure, and perhaps the guy applying twisted a bit because he was not on the achilles. if you roll while talking to each other giving feed back such as hey your not on my achilles and do twist. you guys should be find.

 

[hayliks]

I supposse it could also be dangerous if theres a huge strength disparity between two people. If someone with ridiculous strength applies the hold it could probably cause ligament damage. I didnt even think about applying it belly down. Ive never done it personally although I can imagine there is more leverage there.

that's always how i try to apply it, i'll never fall back with it, i'll go diagonally and forward with the leg if i can, forcing and extremely awkward angle on his leg, and a TON of leverage to finish the lock.

 

[bigdavet99]

The submission itself is fairly benign. it would be the escape attempt where you run into trouble. I've heard of several schools that don't touch leg locks until several months into training just for the danger of injury.

 

[hayliks]

The submission itself is fairly benign. it would be the escape attempt where you run into trouble. I've heard of several schools that don't touch leg locks until several months into training just for the danger of injury.

i know from experience that it can do severe ligament damage in the ankle. most people think it's safe and that it's just a compression lock... those individuals aren't doing it 100% to its potential

 

[Zankou]

I supposse it could also be dangerous if theres a huge strength disparity between two people. If someone with ridiculous strength applies the hold it could probably cause ligament damage. I didnt even think about applying it belly down. Ive never done it personally although I can imagine there is more leverage there.

Then you haven't lived!

Hayliks, are you doing it half-boston crab style, or some other way?

 

[hayliks]

Then you haven't lived!

Hayliks, are you doing it half-boston crab style, or some other way?

different, more stretched out, than upright

 

[sproggdawg]

Then you haven't lived!

Hayliks, are you doing it half-boston crab style, or some other way?

Haha. I guess I should thank you guys for showing me the light then. Ill give it a try tonight!

 

[IamfromOZ]

i dont know, ive had my ankle pop once and it sucked, didnt really hurt bad but my ankle felt really weak for a while and it felt weird to move the foot up and down.

same here. the swelling still isn't completely gone and its been almost a month (but I haven't been very good about icing a lot) But with mine, the ancle was twisted, not pulled straight back.