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About conditioning

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by BigSmile, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. BigSmile

    BigSmile Guest

    Hello,

    I am 27 years old from Holland and since 2 months I have been doing thaiboxing.
    Before this I always played hockey, then I just lifted weights and did some cardio but I wanted to go for a new challenge and I am loving it.

    My question is about running. I did read the FAQ and the articles in there. I read the "Don't post this" and I also used the search function but I can't figure this out

    If you go for sprints on the treadmill, you can go for 400m sprints right? But this will probably take me not even close to 30 minutes (in other article they say to keep your condition between 30 and 60 minutes)

    How do i get to 30 minutes? Can i also do some hill running (on a treadmill haha)? Or is 10-15 minutes enough to up my cardio for my thaiboxing lessons? Or did I just not understand it, and instead of 400 meter I need to sprint for 30 minutes long (seems very exhausting)?

    Another thing is: I see this great conditioning stuf like 'sledgehammer' etc. But is this really needed for a beginner like me?

    My bad if the question has been asked before, it sure has been but i couldnt find it
     
  2. Revok

    Revok Brown Belt

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    It seems you're trying to do two types of cardio at the same time.

    No, nobody should be attempting to do 400m sprints for 30 minutes straight (assuming 1 minute rest time between, you'd be doing ~15 of the most punishing sprints imaginable; no fucking chance). Forget about doing sprints for now, especially the 400m variety.

    Can you jog for 30 minutes without stopping? If not, you need to work on that. Every couple of days, jog for as long a time as you can whilst keeping your heart rate around 150bpm. Until you can go for at least 30 minutes there is absolutely no point attempting sprints of any kind.
     
  3. freeski

    freeski Blue Belt

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    I think the 30 minutes in the FAQ regarding conditioning refers to total time of the conditioning session, not 30 minutes of sprinting, this would be impossible. If you want to do 400m sprints you could try 10x400m sprints with 1:00-2:00 rest intervals. I would also wait for more knowledgable posters to respond before you try it out.
     
  4. BigSmile

    BigSmile Guest

    Yes I can jog for 45/60 minutes.

    So the idea is, to sprint 0.4 km, then walk 1 minute, and go for another sprint until i am pretty much messed up?

    I am sure I couldn't handle this 15 times in a row, no.

    Okay. But if I am done with sprinting, and i did this for 10 minutes, should I do something else for the other 20 minutes? and how intense should those 20 minutes be? I also read in the FAQ its silly to train as a marathon runner if you do combat sports
     
  5. yocan

    yocan Orange Belt

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    maybe I missed it but you had no goals menntioned how are we supposed to help you here?

    generally I like the barbell circuits in the FAQs they are awesome

    for running I like fartleks

    for long sprint practices 400m is way too long you will die. go play ultimate frisbee its short enough you can keep doing it repetitively annd its not perfect straight lines making it better for your overall athleticism. (basketball/soccer also work but I think getting slide tackled is counter productive)
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2010
  6. BigSmile

    BigSmile Guest

    You are right, i forgot that

    The last couple of years I always had serious issues with my aggression, and weight lifting just didn't cut it for me.
    I needed to do a sport that would be very intense, and something that would make me relaxed. This is how I got into thaiboxing

    My goal is to become good at this sport, and I want to use my own qualities + making the things I am weak in stronger, so it's no longer a weakness, but just a less strong quality

    One of those weaker points is my condition. Its not bad, its probably even good compared to most beginners @ my gym but I am not satisified and I am not the type of person to compare myself to others, I know I can become a lot faster and a lot more conditioned then I am now

    Strength training, I got that. I know what I am doing there but conditioning wise (besides in my thaibox lessons) I am just not sure how I should handle it

    I want to become as fast as possible, and use the strength I already have for longer periods of time (i am 1 meter 83 and 195 lbs, and pretty low on fat) (i tend to hit pretty hard a couple of times, but after that i already am pretty much out of power)
    another big goal for me is to become more calm, since thats also a lot better during sparring and just in life itself but I think you guys can't really help me with that
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2010
  7. grrthetree

    grrthetree Green Belt

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    You should differentiate between the two types or cardio training you're talking about, doing something like 400m sprints would be interval training, where your heartrate gets elevated very high, then drops down so you can recover, then back up. Doing 8-10 400m sprints, even 100m sprints, will get your heart rate up very quickly, then you rest, or jog, for a minute or two, then go at it again.

    The second form, you keep bringing up the 30 minutes part, is LSD training. LSd stands for long slow duration, depending on who you ask, and is a means to improve your aerobic base.

    So intervals=anaerobic and aerobic training, LSD= aerobic training. A lot of people reccomend working on your aerobic base before you start doing interval training, but if you already have a decent aerobic base it wouldn't hurt if you split up your cardio sessions 50/50 LSD/interval.
     
  8. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    If you have access to a heart rate monitor, you can try waiting until your heart rate drops below 120 BPM before beginning a new sprint. If you include a warm-up, cool down, mobility work, and foam rolling with your sprints, your workout will take much longer. For your first time sprinting start with an easy number like 4-6, and gradually increase.
     
  9. BigSmile

    BigSmile Guest

    What is the line between running to fast and jogging?
    I always thought jogging was running more slowly then sprinting?

    Do you guys think both LSD and intervals have their function for somebody that does combat sports? I think I read somewhere there is no use to train aerobic if you do combat sports

    another problem I have with the treadmill is that I am scared shitless on them, the last time I was a bit out of balanced so I touched the side, i almost felt haha

    I don't have acces to a HRM
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2010
  10. Bedlam

    Bedlam Blue Belt

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    I'm no expert but from what I've read LSD is for improving your heart and intervals are more about making your fast twitch muscle fibers more efficient. I could be thinking of the intervals wrong but they basically have completely different effects so both are important.

    Having a strong aerobic base is extremely important for MMA/grappling/striking. Unless you're only fighting for about a minute.
     
  11. BigSmile

    BigSmile Guest

    I think i need to stick to the basics first and get my aerobic training to a good level before I go into intervals.

    Yesterday I ran 25 minutes and I was at 4 kilometer. I think thats pretty good but I would rather see 30 minutes-5 kilometer, so i need to do some working

    I also changed my strength workout to 3x5 instead of 3x6, its just 1 rep less, but I want to get more and more towards strength, in about 6 weeks I will go try 3x4
     
  12. Revok

    Revok Brown Belt

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    Assuming you're relatively youthful and healthy:

    Jogging: 120-150bpm. Go at a comfortable pace. There is no such thing as too slow.
    Sprinting: 175+ bpm. Should hurt like hell. Think of sprinting as more akin to lifting than cardio.

    It is absolutely essential to do regular aerobic training if you want to excel at combat (and most other) sports. Read the 'How To Solve Your Conditioning Problems...' thread in the stickies.

    Sell the treadmill. Use proceeds to buy a Polar HRM.
     
  13. MusclesMarinara

    MusclesMarinara Friends with Bigfoot

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    I would also recommend an exercise like Burpees. They'll work wonders for your conditioning.

    Also you could add Tabata intervals for almost any of your calistenic exercises. A full interval is 4 minutes broken down into 20 seconds of work followed by 10 seconds of rest. Add up two or three exercises to Tabata and you'll find yourself beat in 12 min.
     
  14. BigSmile

    BigSmile Guest

    Thank you people, you guys couldn't be more helpful
     
  15. ghostwipe

    ghostwipe Black Belt

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    That might have something to do with the way you're breathing.
     
  16. LZD

    LZD Purple Belt

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    Do a variety of conditioning but don't do too much.

    How many times are you taking classes per week?

    I'd probably just add one high-intensity session that is easier on your joints, like burpees. Do a tabata. That is 20 seconds of burpees, 10 seconds off. Repeat for 4 minutes. Just do it once or twice and go absolutely all out.


    And one aerobic running session, somewhere between 15-20 minutes. Personally I run 3.5km on the open road. If you keep running the same distance, you'll develop a sense of how hard you can go and sustain.
     
  17. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    (1) There were any number of variables specific to the study done by Izumi Tabata ... the fact that he used 20s work and 10s rest is significant/special only in that it's what was used in a particular study, and only meaningful if somebody wanted to replicate, in whole, or in part, that study.

    (2) Also signifcant is that during this study, work was done at 170% aerobic capacity, and also included a warm-up and cool down of a specific length.

    (3) It was done on ergometers...which can mean different things, but in this context, likely exercise bikes.

    (4) So there's no reason to suggest doing 20s work, and 10s rest as opposed to other work-rest intervals, which could work just as well, or even better, depending upon an individuals goals.

    (5) And there's also no reason to refer to 20s work and 10s rest as a "tabata", since from a scientific standpoint it's not...the only standpoint in which it is a "tabata" is a a misleading marketing one, and that's best avoided.
     
  18. EZA

    EZA Joel Jamieson

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    I completely agree with Tosa on this one, Tabata is the biggest overhyped piece of research in history. A) There is nothing special about 20/10 (or 4 minutes for that matter), as it was not compared to any other intervals in the reserach. B) The "tabata" interval group also did 30 minutes a week of LSD, they did not only do intervals C) The interval group's improvements in VO2 max were almost all in the first 3 weeks of training, after that they basicall fell off and saw no significant changes while the endurance group's improvements were more steady throughout D) the research subjects had very poor VO2 max to begin with and were only around 50 E) there were only 7 subjects in each group.

    You will likely need far more than 4-8 minutes of intervals a couple times a week and 20-25 minutes of an "aerobic session" if your goal is increasing aerobic performance unless you are an absolute beginner.
     
  19. Ian Coe

    Ian Coe Silver Belt Professional Fighter

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. LZD

    LZD Purple Belt

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    already know all that 20/10 are just nice clean #s or consider it a ratio it aint a big thang

    anyway, back to the thread, just introduce things slowly at first.
    'phase in', IMHO
     

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