A Tale Of 2 Careers

[pankrat]

I agree for the most part, Silva had to fight whoever was available at the time. I just felt middleweight was weaker than welterweight. Hughes, Fitch, Shields, Penn, and Hendricks (who was looking killer at the time) is a better quality of opponent.

I also feel fighting to the age he did hurt him in most people's eyes for the GOAT discussion. Same with my favorite fighter of all time, Fedor. Whereas someone like Khabib retired with a perfect record, Jon Jones only has 1 loss which was by DQ, and GSP has 2 losses that he avenged.

I dont know if weaker...WW was the deeper division for sure, but Silva also reigned for longer and fought above his weightclass.
Not to mention Silva holds a top5 win at WW in Sakurai as well, even though its hard to rate this accomplishment in hindsight.

You say Shields or Fitch are better quality of opponent...well, if they are superior caliber of competiton than Okami or Maia - who aren't even top5 in Silva's list btw - they are so by a slight margin, about as slight as Shields controversial decisions with both Okami and Maia. I would say they are fairly close caliber of competition.

Anyways, a top win is rated by quality of opponent + quality of performance. Of course its not the same to edge a highly controverial decision (Hendricks) as finishing your opponent in a fight, even if both look as a W on paper.

Losses way past prime dont really blemish the legacy of all-time greats in my book, much less well into their 40s, whether if is Silva, Fedor or Muhammad Ali.

The only that could prevent Silva from being regarded as GOAT are PEDs, Jones, or both imo.

 

[pankrat]

Silva's an excellent fighter and certainly deserves to be in the UFC HOF, I just don't think he was the GOAT. I also don't think that if he were in his prime now he would be the champion. Izzy, Whitaker, Romero, and even Rockhold (until he gets KOed) would be competitive fights.

Of course some modern elite could make it competitive. Silva actually kept it competitive with Israel well into his 40s.

I still favour Silva to KO Rob and Luke and outstriking Romero. A guy as prime Jacare - or of course Weidman - would have been tough mathups for Silva at any age imo.

What you say apply to everyone though, GSP actually left the division after very arguably losing to Hendricks and Jones is barely edging controversial decisions in his last defenses

 

[jeff7b9]

True but at the same time, look who he fought

5 of his fights were against former/future champ and they were all in their primes.

For the other 3, one was a top contender (Cannonier) so was Brunson at the time of the fight. The worst fighter he fought was Hall and he's still #10.

Sure, he's not the same but ffs give him a fight that is winnable for a 40+years old fighter



View attachment 811889

yup.

not sure there are many 40-45 year olds that do much better against that string of killers.

 

[Viking Power]

Agree to disagree. I do agree that the past 7 years disqualified him in most people's eyes for GOAT status. The Irvin and Griffin fights were tailor made to his skill set. Neither of them are great strikers. Do you think he would have done that to Izzy, Romero, or Whitaker? Izzy and Romero are counter punchers so I guarantee it would never happen with them.

I think Izzy and Romero vs. Silva might have ended up being super boring fights because of the counter striker issue you mentioned. I would say agree to disagree but I’m probably not too far from agreeing with you. Haha.

 

[Conor_Is_Overrated]

Pre and post usada??

Prime and post-prime (mostly over 40).

 

[Conor_Is_Overrated]

True but at the same time, look who he fought

5 of his fights were against former/future champ and they were all in their primes.

For the other 3, one was a top contender (Cannonier) so was Brunson at the time of the fight. The worst fighter he fought was Hall and he's still #10.

Sure, he's not the same but ffs give him a fight that is winnable for a 40+years old fighter



View attachment 811889

Exactly this.
This is an insane schedule for a 40+ year-old fighter... insane.

 

[Lethal_Striker]

Silva just hasn't been the same fighter since the Weidman injury, I think that is a much bigger factor then the USADA thing. When your leg breaks like that and kicking is such a part of your skill set I don't know how it doesn't effect your ability to fight.

 

[dildos]

Prime and post-prime (mostly over 40).

No- def USADA based.

 

[AndersonSilva23]

Silva was 37 in 2012, he had started slowing down before his eventual loss to Weidman (started getting hit more often). Other greats like GSP & Khabib retired at age 32, Silva fought wayyy past his prime and should’ve retired a decade ago. Absolutely amazing in his prime though, prime vs prime probably the best ever, Legend.

 

[Ozze]

Is normal.

 

[TheSpider]

Silva is still the GOAT. 43+ year old Silva did better vs Izzy than prime Whittaker + Costa and did better vs DC than prime Stipe 1

 

[BB in Crazy!!!!]

Who was Silva's best win before 2013? Franklin? Hendo? Okami?

He fought better competition after. When people were talking about him as the goat I never agreed because his quality of opponents wasn't that good before.

Bisping, Hall, Cannonier, Brunson are not better comp than what he was fighting in his prime (and they are still tough fights) Wiedman, DC, and Isreal are the only ones and Wiedman has since mostly fallen off as well.

 

[Deleted member 581347]

Read thread title was expecting this

 

[FWRGeorgie]

Well this just ruined my day

 

[HaulParris]

View attachment 811883

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

 

[daniel san]

Pre and post usada??

Considering he got caught twice it’s not like he immediately stopped with PEDs and his performances post Weidman have been poor indicating that not the PEDs alone can be the reason why he was so damn good.

 

[Twc]

Of course some modern elite could make it competitive. Silva actually kept it competitive with Israel well into his 40s.

I still favour Silva to KO Rob and Luke and outstriking Romero. A guy as prime Jacare - or of course Weidman - would have been tough mathups for Silva at any age imo.

What you say apply to everyone though, GSP actually left the division after very arguably losing to Hendricks and Jones is barely edging controversial decisions in his last defenses

As you said WW was the deeper division for sure, doesn't that tie into Silva's reign being longer since he was fighting in a less deep division? I mentioned in a different post, Silva fighting at a higher division doesn't mean squat because those fights were tailor made for him. He fought Bonnar, Griffin, and Irvin. None of them are wrestlers and none of them of them have great striking. It's like how the UFC picked fights for Conor that were good style match ups for him.

I guarantee Silva wouldn't be KOing Adesanya or Romero who are also counter strikers, he needs someone to lead the fight to have a spectacular finish. That's why his fights with Maia, Cote, etc. were so boring.

When GSP beat Hendricks, Hendricks was destroying everyone. He was just a shell of himself after USADA. Hendricks only had 1 loss at that time.

And when I say Shields and Fitch are better quality of opponent, isn't Hendo one of Silva's top 5 wins? Shields dominated him over 5 rounds in Strikeforce not long after he fought Silva. So Shields is at least as good of an opponent as Hendo if not better.

 

[CerebralKnievel]

That's a striking image. Love it

 

[IloveTHIS]

I’m not the biggest Spider fan, but I look at both of those fights as flukes.

I think if Anderson didn’t clown in the first and break his leg in the second...

Lmaooooooooo

This shit is fucking incredible

 

[Twc]

Bisping, Hall, Cannonier, Brunson are not better comp than what he was fighting in his prime (and they are still tough fights) Wiedman, DC, and Isreal are the only ones and Wiedman has since mostly fallen off as well.

Disagree, Bisping is at least as good as Franklin if not better. Who was Franklin's biggest win? Probably Okami or maybe Tanner. He lost to all the good fighters he fought: Silva twice, Machida, Hendo, Belfort, Griffin, Cung Le. He beat a washed up Wanderlei twice and Chuck. Look at Wanderlei's record at the time, he was 4-9 to end his career with 2 losses to Franklin. The Chuck fight was his last one before he came back in 2018 to fight Tito again. Chuck's chin was cracked, he's been KOed early in his last 4 fights

I agree with Hall, I think the UFC was trying to give him a winnable farewell fight. Cannonier and Brunson are good but nothing special. Do you rate Sonnen as a top 5 win for Silva?

As you said Weidman, DC, and Israel are good fighters and I added Bisping there.