A Sad Day In Court For Dogs And Their Owners

You should read the actual case, then. There, they clearly define the killing of the dog as a seizure, and cite multiple cases for it. I go through and explain the opinion to you. It contains all this info. And you quibble about words you don't understand and then say I am not providing court cases. I did. Quit being lazy.
Here is Cornell U's legal institute defining "seizure" "A seizure of property, within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment, occurs when there is some meaningful interference with an individual’s possessory interests in the property."
That's a good definition. Pretty fucking simple. If you think the 4th amendment doesn't prevent the police from destroying your property, then you are just wrong, no if's ands or buts. You don't have to look anywhere else for it in the Constitution such as the 9th.

That you would even ask why you need the Constitution to be involved in seeking recourse against the federal government for the destruction of private property shows that you don't really get it, and should be asking questions instead of arguing with me. It's not even debatable.


The 9th Amendment doesn't grant rights, it merely recognizes the existence of unenumerated rights. And what those rights are is not based on what you believe them to be. As a practical matter, if you are looking for protection from the 9th, you are screwed.

The 5th, or 14th, since this was a state actor and not the federal government, would be a possible place to get such a right if it weren't given more explicitly in the 4th. The problem with looking for it there is determining the amount of process you are due would be even squishier than determining what is reasonable under the 4th. Take this example, if you point a gun at a cop, are you due a trial before he takes your life? Of course not. Same would go with a dog. You are due little to no process beyond the grant of the search warrant when a cop executes a warrant like that.

Here come the insults. :rolleyes:

And since you first chastize me with this,

"That you would even ask why you need the Constitution to be involved in seeking recourse against the federal government for the destruction of private property"

then follow it up with this,

"since this was a state actor and not the federal government,"

just reinforces my suspicion that I've lost track of what it is you're trying to argue and you've lost sight of my actual complaint.

Have a good one.
 
Yeah, and there are a bunch of cases were asshole cops shoot the dog for no reason. I get the purpose of the law and the cop's safety has to be first and foremost but this seems like one that is abused a lot.
 
Here come the insults. :rolleyes:

And since you first chastize me with this,

"That you would even ask why you need the Constitution to be involved in seeking recourse against the federal government for the destruction of private property"

then follow it up with this,

"since this was a state actor and not the federal government,"

just reinforces my suspicion that I've lost track of what it is you're trying to argue and you've lost sight of my actual complaint.

Have a good one.
Good catch. The 4th applies against the states through the 14th.

My understanding was that you dont think a cop destroying property qualifies as a seizure under the 4th (as you rightly pointed out applied through the 14th). Is that right? If so, you are wrong for the reasons described above.

Sorry for calling you lazy. But I did link the case that shows that it is, so you not looking at it and saying I never did it was kind of a cop out.
 
Good catch. The 4th applies against the states through the 14th.

My understanding was that you dont think a cop destroying property qualifies as a seizure under the 4th (as you rightly pointed out applied through the 14th). Is that right? If so, you are wrong for the reasons described above.

Sorry for calling you lazy. But I did link the case that shows that it is, so you not looking at it and saying I never did it was kind of a cop out.

Apology accepted, thank you. I apologize for overlooking your link.

As I stated, before erroneously indulging in what I considered to be a tangent, I don't see how the Constitution is relevant to the complaint in the OP. The complaint being that barking constitutes an actionable threat that justifies pupicide.

All I was saying about the definition of seize was that I couldn't find one that included destroy and that seize is conceptually distinguishable from destroy because it implies future usability (or that it remains relatively intact). The courts expanding the definition to suit their purposes is what it is. Abortion can be justified as privacy but they aren't synonyms and neither is "to destroy" a definition of seize. I have no idea what relevant argument you are constructing. I will say that looking at the 4th this makes it sound like you need a warrant to seize something. If so, why doesn't the dog need to be particularly described on the warrant?

and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
 
I guess it's just a different kind of dude that joins the fire department. :D

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/michigan-...-thin-ice-205607775--abc-news-topstories.html

f103db30-ce0c-11e6-a1d2-3b7469a24cd4_WZZM-dog-rescue-02-jrl-161229_4x3_992.jpg




When firefighters arrived at the lake, the dog was still barking and struggling to climb out of the water, but he was unable to grab onto the ice and pull himself out, according to White Lake Fire Chief Gregory Holman.

"Looking at an ice rescue situation involving animals, if it's a deer, we're probably not going to endanger our staff and put them out on the ice," he said. "But for a family pet like a dog, we'll do our best to rescue 'em."

"It's a very good feeling" he said, adding that he hopes to unite the pup with his family.
 
You are being hysterical and ridiculous. A cop cant just randomly shoot dogs on the street because they exist, either. But if the cops are executing a warrant in a house, and the car somehow poses a possible threat while they are executing it, your god dakn right they can disable it.

They cant shoot dogs that they determine are a threat?

Gonna say you are wrong. Thats pretty stupid to even think.
 
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