A History of the Very Worst of UFC Championship Matchmaking

[Billthebutcher2]

Paul Buentello vs Arlovski. That lasted like 10 seconds.

 

[mooseman17]

McGregor vs Aldo, poor Jose should have just stayed home.

 

[UkraineFreightTrain]

There weren't too many undeserved title shots that I can think of at 155/170

Tito Ortiz Vs Frank Shamrock
& Jones Vs Vitor/Chael come to mind

 

[Pseudo Sane]

Well, with the shitshow of heavyweight out of the way, time to move onto the UFC's traditional marquee attraction, the Light Heavyweights.

One would think that the traditionally 'strongest' division in the UFC would have fewer heinous and borderline illegal championship matches. One would be wrong.

First, the list:

Light Heavyweight

• Frank Shamrock def. Kevin Jackson (Kevin Jackson had 3 professional fights when he fought for the title. Unfortunately not a UFC record. Thanks Lesnar!).
• 
  
• Frank Shamrock def. Igor Zinoviev
• 
  
• Frank Shamrock def. Jeremy Horn (I feel like this is a good time to point out that Gumby is actually a middleweight. This does not stop him fighting for the title twice)
• 
  
• Frank Shamrock def. John Lober (Lober was riding an impressive 6 fight streak without a victory when he fought for the title, which has to be some kind of record).
• 
  
• Frank Shamrock def. Tito Ortiz (Shamrock vacates the title at this point, citing a lack of competition. Reviewing his opponents' records, it is hard to blame him.)
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Wanderlei Silva
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Yuki Kondo
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Evan Tanner
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Elvis Sinosic (A classic mismatch. In Sinosic's favour, he did technically have a winning record going into the match. Just not once it was over).
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Vladimir Matyushenko
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Ken Shamrock
• 
  
• Randy Couture def. Chuck Liddell (interim)
• 
  
• Randy Couture def. Tito Ortiz (one of the rare championship fights Randy actually earned)
• 
  
• Vitor Belfort def. Randy Couture
• 
  
• Randy Couture def. Vitor Belfort
• 
  
• Chuck Liddell def. Randy Couture
• 
  
• Chuck Liddell def. Jeremy Horn (Gumby returns for his first UFC fight since 2001, essentially for the sole purpose of allowing Chuck to avenge his earlier submission loss)
• 
  
• Chuck Liddell def. Randy Couture
• 
  
• Chuck Liddell def. Renato Sobral
• 
  
• Chuck Liddell def. Tito Ortiz
• 
  
• Quinton Jackson def. Chuck Liddell
• 
  
• Quinton Jackson def. Dan Henderson
• 
  
• Forrest Griffin def. Quinton Jackson (remember when Forrest was champ, guys?)
• 
  
• Rashad Evans def. Forrest Griffin
• 
  
• Lyoto Machida def. Rashad Evans (the Machida Era!)
• 
  
• Lyoto Machida def. Mauricio Rua
• 
  
• Mauricio Rua def. Lyoto Machida (one of the rare merited immediate rematches in UFC history)
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Mauricio Rua
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Quinton Jackson
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Lyoto Machida
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Rashad Evans
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Vitor Belfort
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Chael Sonnen
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Alexander Gustafsson
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Glover Teixeira
• 
  
• Jon Jones Def. Daniel Cormier (Jones is then stripped for a felony hit-and-run. Oops).
• 
  
• Daniel Cormier def. Anthony Johnson
• 
  
• Daniel Cormier def. Alexander Gustafsson
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Ovince Saint Preux (interim)

------

Did you think Heavyweight was bad? Ha! Your god is a lie. LHW matchmaking will make you cry blood if you think about it for too long.

My top three shittiest, most indefensible matches are as follows:

3) Daniel Cormier def. Alexander Gustafsson

I realize that this may be controversial, because Gus is a great fighter, but Humble Rumble had just decapitated him in his previous fight, and the brass just gifted him a shot at the crown. I realize that LHW was hurting for talent at the time, but this fight breaks the cardinal rule of giving a title shot off of a loss, and a TKO loss at that.

2) Tito Ortiz vs Elvis Sinosic

Okay, so I have nothing against Sinosic as a human being. He seems like a perfectly nice guy. The real problem is that he fought a 8-2 Tito Ortiz for the UFC title with a 4-3-1 record overall, and 1-2-1 over his last 4. Elvis was sent into the cage to die, and Ortiz was the chosen method of execution.

1) Frank Shamrock def. John Lober

John Lober may actually have the worst record of any human being who has fought for a UFC title. He was sitting at 3-5-2, against the 18-7-1 Frank Shamrock. The only reason I can think of that this fight happened is that Lober had somehow eked out a split decision against Frank a year earlier, before going on to lose or draw the next 6 fights. I don't normally like to pick on pre-ZUFFA matchmaking, but whoever booked this match deserves to be pistol-whipped.

Honourable Mentions: Jon Jones def. Chael Sonnen, and Chuck Liddell def. Jeremy Horn. In a universe with a kind and loving God, these travesties would have made the top three. Unfortunately, because Chael was filling in on short notice, the UFC gets a pass for a fighter jumping up a division in weight and challenging for the title on a loss, and Chuck's match with Gumby at least involved a fighter with a winning record and a win over Chuck, albeit one who typically fights a weightclass lower.

-----

Anyway, those are my top three LHW bouts. Stay tuned for middleweight tomorrow.

 

[Pseudo Sane]

Paul Buentello vs Arlovski. That lasted like 10 seconds.

I actually remember watching that fight live, seeing them touch gloves, and thinking that Buentello was straight fucked.

It was a terrible fight, but it made sense on paper, even if Buentello was painfully outmatched. Buentello was on a six fight win streak, all finishes.

In retrospect they should not have been in the cage together, but booking the match was totally justifiable on paper.

 

[TGArthur]

There were far worst.

Dan Hardy vs GSP
Patrick Cote vs Anderson Silva
Rich Franklin vs Nate Quarry
Jon Fitch vs GSP

Although for Cote, I give him credit and made the fight not seem lopsided until his calf pulled, IIRC.

 

[Mochan]

I've said it long before. Randy gets title shots just by breathing. Nobody in the UFC was gifted more title shots than Randy.

 

[Drake]

I've said it long before. Randy gets title shots just by breathing. Nobody in the UFC was gifted more title shots than Randy.

Spoiler

 

[Lemmy Caution]

Also, if you win your title match, it also means you deserved the title match. Any issue any one can have with how they got the title match is automatically void.

No. That is called moral luck. That's like saying, it is morally wrong to drive while drunk only if you cause a accident. In other words, an action is only judged on it's outcome.

 

[Xenon_]

Pseudo out here dropping knowledge bombs. Kaboom : )

Nice thread. Interesting stuff and it's educating the complainers who think the credibility is disappearing.

Respect.

 

[Negative Zero]

No. That is called moral luck. That's like saying, it is morally wrong to drive while drunk only if you cause a accident. In other words, an action is only judged on it's outcome.

You have too much good sense to be here.

 

[Cygnus-X]

No. That is called moral luck. That's like saying, it is morally wrong to drive while drunk only if you cause a accident. In other words, an action is only judged on it's outcome.

Not all actions are the same and can be evaluated the same, in this case you're comparing accidents with achievements. No matter if you "deserved" a title shot or not (a notion that pretty much only MMA forum posters really think carries real world weight in the first place), you still have to do the real actual achievement, which is beating the champion. If you do, then there's absolutely zero sense in any argument that your title shot was undeserved, as you showed clear capability to beat the champion.

Isn't this notion of winning fights to "deserve" a title shot just a way to shake out if someone has the actual performance capability to be a top contender in the first place? Yes.

 

[INTERL0PER]

There were far worst.

Dan Hardy vs GSP
Patrick Cote vs Anderson Silva
Rich Franklin vs Nate Quarry
Jon Fitch vs GSP

Although for Cote, I give him credit and made the fight not seem lopsided until his calf pulled, IIRC.

Hardy was on a four fight win streak, Fitch was on an 8 fight win streak. Hardly undeserved.

 

[Lemmy Caution]

You have too much good sense to be here.

Except for spelling good.

Not all actions are the same and can be evaluated the same, in this case you're comparing accidents with achievements. No matter if you "deserved" a title shot or not (a notion that pretty much only MMA forum posters really think carries real world weight in the first place), you still have to do the real actual achievement, which is beating the champion. If you do, then there's absolutely zero sense in any argument that your title shot was undeserved, as you showed clear capability to beat the champion.

Isn't this notion of winning fights to "deserve" a title shot just a way to shake out if someone has the actual performance capability to be a top contender in the first place? Yes.

You cheat on your SAT in order to get into medical school and later find a cure for cancer. It still does not justify cheating.

The thing is, you are making an argument from hindsight. If he won, it was right. If he lost, it shows how terrible UFC matchmaking is.

This kind of argument is made all the time and people do not think about it. Like how the mass graves discovered in Iraq after the invasion, somehow became a justification for the invasion. This is how we intuitively reason. DUI is bad. Killing somebody while DUI is worse. The actions are the same, yet the luck of the outcome somehow plays a part in our judgment of the action itself.

 

[Cygnus-X]

You cheat on your SAT in order to get into medical school and later find a cure for cancer. It still does not justify cheating.

There is no cheating involved here whatsoever. There's nothing going against the rules or paradigms of the sport.

The thing is, you are making an argument from hindsight. If he won, it was right. If he lost, it shows how terrible UFC matchmaking is.

No, it doesn't. The matchmaker doesn't have as much power over the title fights as he does over every other minute fight on every card. Making title fights in MMA is by a huge margin more of a business decision than necessarily a sports decision. Nick Diaz got a title fight vs GSP completely "undeserved", yet it sold a shitload more PPVs than GSP vs Hendricks, a clear cut "deserving" contender, did.

So were the UFC making the right or wrong decision by making the Diaz vs GSP fight? In the end, the paying audience said that it was a right one.

This kind of argument is made all the time and people do not think about it. Like how the mass graves discovered in Iraq after the invasion, somehow became a justification for the invasion. This is how we intuitively reason. DUI is bad. Killing somebody while DUI is worse. The actions are the same, yet the luck of the outcome somehow plays a part in our judgment of the action itself.

Except this is nothing like any of those things.

 

[binny]

Well, with the shitshow of heavyweight out of the way, time to move onto the UFC's traditional marquee attraction, the Light Heavyweights.

One would think that the traditionally 'strongest' division in the UFC would have fewer heinous and borderline illegal championship matches. One would be wrong.

First, the list:

Light Heavyweight

• Frank Shamrock def. Kevin Jackson (Kevin Jackson had 3 professional fights when he fought for the title. Unfortunately not a UFC record. Thanks Lesnar!).
• 
  
• Frank Shamrock def. Igor Zinoviev
• 
  
• Frank Shamrock def. Jeremy Horn (I feel like this is a good time to point out that Gumby is actually a middleweight. This does not stop him fighting for the title twice)
• 
  
• Frank Shamrock def. John Lober (Lober was riding an impressive 6 fight streak without a victory when he fought for the title, which has to be some kind of record).
• 
  
• Frank Shamrock def. Tito Ortiz (Shamrock vacates the title at this point, citing a lack of competition. Reviewing his opponents' records, it is hard to blame him.)
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Wanderlei Silva
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Yuki Kondo
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Evan Tanner
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Elvis Sinosic (A classic mismatch. In Sinosic's favour, he did technically have a winning record going into the match. Just not once it was over).
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Vladimir Matyushenko
• 
  
• Tito Ortiz def. Ken Shamrock
• 
  
• Randy Couture def. Chuck Liddell (interim)
• 
  
• Randy Couture def. Tito Ortiz (one of the rare championship fights Randy actually earned)
• 
  
• Vitor Belfort def. Randy Couture
• 
  
• Randy Couture def. Vitor Belfort
• 
  
• Chuck Liddell def. Randy Couture
• 
  
• Chuck Liddell def. Jeremy Horn (Gumby returns for his first UFC fight since 2001, essentially for the sole purpose of allowing Chuck to avenge his earlier submission loss)
• 
  
• Chuck Liddell def. Randy Couture
• 
  
• Chuck Liddell def. Renato Sobral
• 
  
• Chuck Liddell def. Tito Ortiz
• 
  
• Quinton Jackson def. Chuck Liddell
• 
  
• Quinton Jackson def. Dan Henderson
• 
  
• Forrest Griffin def. Quinton Jackson (remember when Forrest was champ, guys?)
• 
  
• Rashad Evans def. Forrest Griffin
• 
  
• Lyoto Machida def. Rashad Evans (the Machida Era!)
• 
  
• Lyoto Machida def. Mauricio Rua
• 
  
• Mauricio Rua def. Lyoto Machida (one of the rare merited immediate rematches in UFC history)
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Mauricio Rua
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Quinton Jackson
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Lyoto Machida
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Rashad Evans
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Vitor Belfort
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Chael Sonnen
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Alexander Gustafsson
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Glover Teixeira
• 
  
• Jon Jones Def. Daniel Cormier (Jones is then stripped for a felony hit-and-run. Oops).
• 
  
• Daniel Cormier def. Anthony Johnson
• 
  
• Daniel Cormier def. Alexander Gustafsson
• 
  
• Jon Jones def. Ovince Saint Preux (interim)

------

Did you think Heavyweight was bad? Ha! Your god is a lie. LHW matchmaking will make you cry blood if you think about it for too long.

My top three shittiest, most indefensible matches are as follows:

3) Daniel Cormier def. Alexander Gustafsson

I realize that this may be controversial, because Gus is a great fighter, but Humble Rumble had just decapitated him in his previous fight, and the brass just gifted him a shot at the crown. I realize that LHW was hurting for talent at the time, but this fight breaks the cardinal rule of giving a title shot off of a loss, and a TKO loss at that.

2) Tito Ortiz vs Elvis Sinosic

Okay, so I have nothing against Sinosic as a human being. He seems like a perfectly nice guy. The real problem is that he fought a 8-2 Tito Ortiz for the UFC title with a 4-3-1 record overall, and 1-2-1 over his last 4. Elvis was sent into the cage to die, and Ortiz was the chosen method of execution.

1) Frank Shamrock def. John Lober

John Lober may actually have the worst record of any human being who has fought for a UFC title. He was sitting at 3-5-2, against the 18-7-1 Frank Shamrock. The only reason I can think of that this fight happened is that Lober had somehow eked out a split decision against Frank a year earlier, before going on to lose or draw the next 6 fights. I don't normally like to pick on pre-ZUFFA matchmaking, but whoever booked this match deserves to be pistol-whipped.

Honourable Mentions: Jon Jones def. Chael Sonnen, and Chuck Liddell def. Jeremy Horn. In a universe with a kind and loving God, these travesties would have made the top three. Unfortunately, because Chael was filling in on short notice, the UFC gets a pass for a fighter jumping up a division in weight and challenging for the title on a loss, and Chuck's match with Gumby at least involved a fighter with a winning record and a win over Chuck, albeit one who typically fights a weightclass lower.

-----

Anyway, those are my top three LHW bouts. Stay tuned for middleweight tomorrow.

chael was filling in on short notice originally, jones said no. that event was cancelled, then they did a season of TUF with them coaching and fighting at the end. that is the definition of long notice.also chael was coming off a tko loss at middleweight. jones vs chael is easily above gus vs DC

 

[xentreos]

thickly veiled randy couture hate thread? hespek

 

[Pseudo Sane]

chael was filling in on short notice originally, jones said no. that event was cancelled, then they did a season of TUF with them coaching and fighting at the end. that is the definition of long notice.also chael was coming off a tko loss at middleweight. jones vs chael is easily above gus vs DC

That's true. I think I blocked out that season of TUF.

I can definitely see the argument for Jones vs. Sonnen over Cormier vs. Gus.

 

[Pseudo Sane]

thickly veiled randy couture hate thread? hespek

No hate. Randy's poor record is largely a result of having fought nothing but top 10 and top 5 opponents his entire career. He was never a can crusher.

At the same time, it shouldn't be controversial that he has gotten a lot of shots that he never had to earn.

 

[Rovert]

So HW is shit because the UFC has never really tried to invest in it or manage it properly ? I was hoping this trend would stop in 2006 with Pride being bought but no they have no interest in that , they can have an entire FLW division for the cost of 2 HW fighters.