A good kick boxer/muay thai fighter could beat the karate Wonderboy Thompson

[DaGenius]

Did you just read about the fight or did you watch it? Brown won with takedowns and that also was much earlier in Thompson's MMA career.

I actually would like to see a rematch. Thompson needs to neutralize that L and now he has the TDD to do it.

I remember Matt brown hitting him with elbows and Thompson not being nearly as flashy and not really being excited about fighting. He finished him on the ground....so there's that

 

[Guestx]

Robert Whittaker was MT wasn't he?

No, actually Whittaker himself is a karate guy. He also studied Hapkido.

 

[HHJ]

with a minimum 8-kick per round rule.

 

[Guestx]

Moot point comparing the 2. Just because that Karateka was a black belt doesn't mean he's an awesome black belt...there are shitty black belts too....
I mean. Black magic spencer is suppose to be a golden gloves champ isn't he?

THIS is the point that I have been waiting for someone to make. Thompson beating an MT guy doesn't make karate better than MT, just like an MT guy beating Thompson doesn't make MT better than karate. If it worked like that, what happens a karate guy beats another karate guy? Does the world explode?

Both karate and MT are excellent striking arts that can be used to good effect in the hands of the right practitioner.

 

[karatekick1]

This is the short-sightedness that I was referring to. We are no longer discussing the interaction between a pure thai boxer and a pure karate fighter. Those "rock-paper-scissors" relationships are null and void.

There are many bouts in MMA that take place 100% on the feet.

Also since when has stance switching been new to Thai boxing.

 

[shinkyoku]

THIS is the point that I have been waiting for someone to make. Thompson beating an MT guy doesn't make karate better than MT, just like an MT guy beating Thompson doesn't make MT better than karate. If it worked like that, what happens a karate guy beats another karate guy? Does the world explode?
.

Well, in UFC2, Johnny Rhodes (Shorinji-ryu karate) defeated Fred Ettish (shorin-ryu kempo karate). Both was billed as karate fighters in the event. And somehow one karateka defeating another karateka decisively, became the ultimate proof that karate didnt work in the cage. Well, it worked for Rhodes.

 

[tasticles]

Stephen Thompson competed only in the Full Contact Karate rules (aka, American Kickboxing) divisions, which is exclusively above the waist punching and kicking, with a minimum 8-kick per round rule.

That sideways stance can be very effective in Full Contact, but is of limited utilitity in muay Thai or kickboxing rules divisions that allow for leg kicking.

Very true but Karate still works in muay thai, you just have to modify it to be light on your feet and not planted in a deep wide stance. I've seen thai boxers get their ass beat by karate guys. Is it super often? no but some people are just smarter fighters and know how to adapt. I doubt he would use a deep rooted stance in Thai rules.

 

[xP]

It would take a guy who's seriously good at it, but there is a vulnerability there in the stance. I'm sure the guy has trained against a good low kicker after training MMA if not before.

Dude can fight incredibly well from both stances so he can at an open or closed stance whenever he wants which will make leg kicking him harder. Then there is the fact that he has fucking nasty counters with his rear hand in both stances.

 

[shinkyoku]

Very true but Karate still works in muay thai, you just have to modify it to be light on your feet and not planted in a deep wide stance. I've seen thai boxers get their ass beat by karate guys. Is it super often? no

It happens about as often as MT guys defeats karate guys in karate fights.
Strangely, practitioners of one sport tend to be better at their own sport. They also tend to stay in their own sport.

K-1 was a good melting pot where fighters from different backgrounds faced each other. Kyokushin (and its sub-styles like ashihara and seidokaikan) proved its worth with several GP world champions, and even more runners up.

 

[frontkick1]

No, "kickboxing" is a term originally coined by the Japanese and internationally used to refer to the style that came to be known as K-1, international rules or Oriental rules. The leg kicks came from Kyokushin and is no more watered down muay Thai than boxing is watered down kickboxing.

wrong !!!

low kick techniques with shin originally came from muay thai.

 

[frontkick1]

Comon Guys really?


Kickboxing comes from Karate, Andy Hug, Francisco Filho, Glaube Feitosa, Sam Greco, Nicolas Pettas, Samy Schillt, were some of the most feared back in the days,especially their low kicks. not many of thesedays HW divison Fighters would stand a chance against these Animals back then.

Bruce Lee was a Karate Blackbelt under the great Mas Oyama
OSU!

WHAT ???!!
first of all bruce lee would have never ever worked with japanese .
learn some history man.

 

[The Hound]

Muay thai sucks in mma. Conor killed the Muay thai train.

Anderson Silva, TJ Dillashaw, Jose Aldo, Renan Barao, Carlos Condit, Donald Cerrone, Shogun Rua, Wanderlei Silva, Joanna Jedrzejcyk... They all suck.

Conor McGregor must suck too since he was working with a Muay Thai guy yesterday.



Muay Thai is actually very effective, and if you put a high level strictly Muay Thai guy vs a high level strictly Karate guy in an MMA fight, the Muay Thai fighter will most likely win because he will have too many tools. Leg kicks, elbows, knees, uppercuts, hooks, clinch fighting. The Karate fighter will be overwhelmed every time.

Unless you train the Karate guy how to deal with and defend against all of those (which would be teaching him Muay Thai), then the Karate guy will pose a threat to the Muay Thai fighter.

Karate and TKD have a lot of useful things to offer, but if you could only learn 1 stand up art to compete in MMA, you are much better off with just Muay Thai than just Karate. What's great about MMA though, is that you don't have to limit yourself like that.

Look at TJ Dillashaw for example, he is definitely a Muay Thai fighter, but he has taken Muay Thai footwork and movement to a completely different level. Look at Anderson Silva, he is a Muay Thai fighter but he also implements more elusive footwork and crazy head movement which is not found in traditional Muay Thai. Jose Aldo also implements boxing head movement. Conor McGregor uses a karate stance with some karate and TKD kicks but he also punches like a European boxer, etc.

 

[Guestx]

WHAT ???!!
first of all bruce lee would have never ever worked with japanese .
learn some history man.

Not exactly true. I don't know of any connections between Bruce and Oyama, but he did work--at least casually--with Fumio Demura.

 

[shinkyoku]

wrong !!!

low kick techniques with shin originally came from muay thai.

And noone else had EVER thought of it?
It exist in multiple arts, including several kungfu styles which karate draws its roots from.
MT may be the art most frequently associated with lowkicks and kicking with the shin, but they did not invent it. Kicking with the shin is oldschool in karate (not in point karate but older formats), kyokushin got its lowkicks from gojuryu, where it was a basic technique before point karate was introduced and it fell out of use.
Yes, kyokushin put more training into lowkicking, with and without the shin, after fighting thainboxers. But regardless what some mt fanboys would like to believe, there was no copying going on.
The same can be said for elbows, knees and so on (and headbutts, and limited grapple. maybe not the sport-rule adapted clinch game of mt, but still). It is all there in old karate (I avoid saying traditional karate since people associate that with point karate which was invented after the war)

 

[GabbaGabba]

Of course they could. Its not even that much about stand up styles, but about guys behind the style. Everyone gets beat, guys get figured out, its always like that. Then people hype the style of the guy who beats him etc.

 

[Maori II]

Boxing shits on both

 

[kflo]

Boxing shits on both

So fuckin stupid.

 

[steliokontos]

I understand where TS is coming from, Shogun VS Machida and Daniels VS Holzken immediately come to mind when thinking of beating a karate guy.

 

[Maori II]

So fuckin stupid.

Best striking base bro for sheezy

 

[Lamfadha]

His karate stance is vulnerable for low kicks too bad there aren't many great low kickers in ww division
It's so funny when a karate guy have sucess in ufc while in kick boxing matches they get their ass kicked

Ok so this happened under Kyokuhinkai rules which have a squarer stance and they check leg kicks they use leg kicks elbows and knees to the body the video even says he practises Kyokushinkai recreationally.
Also Kyokushinkai Karate beat Muay Thai 2/3 times in challenge matches in the late 1960's / early 1970's in Thailand so Karate is obviously effective.

Karate has sweeps ground and pound elbows , knees, low kicks , basic standing submissions etc you just never see them because watered down karate is taught where the focus is on safety.
Kempo Karate is even more diverse with takedowns and ground work because it is actually a style of Ju Jitsu fused with Karate. Yes Ju Jitsu that thing with guard work, takedowns and submissions.
The same Kempo that Wonderboy learns. Also Benny the Jet Uquidez repeatedly over shoudler threw a Thai in his challenge match he had no response to his Nage waza or throwing technique.

Benny the Jet learned Kempo Karate. The other word for Kempo Karate would be MMA because of its striking takedowns ground and pound and submissions.
So can people stop being so damned closed minded? Also Ramon Dekkers was from Dutch Kickboxing which is Boxing + Karate namely Kyokushin Karate or Mejiro Karate a offshoot of Kyokushin.
He beat up all the Thai's as well does that make Muay Thai shit? No. It means Ramon Dekkers was a beast and the Thai's that fought him were beasts. TLDR : Martial Arts are effective no matter the style.