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a few questions for those who know wrestling

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by devante, Aug 15, 2010.

  1. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    1)based off of his fight w/roy nelson, how good do u assess junior's takedown def to be; i know roy isn't a high level wrestler; but w/in mma, he seems very able in taking down any and all guys he fight, he couldn't do it in that fight..what does that say.

    2)how the hell does mark munoz wrestling, not translate over to mma that well; based on his accomplishments shouldnt he more or less take folks down at will

    3)is jon jones ability to throw and outwrestle people a matter of such great tech or the more obvious once in a lifetime athleticism dynamic ability coordination and explosiveness.

    4)is chael sonnen more or less the equal of king mo in wrestling; as mo often says most guys aren't world class, a silver in world championships would make chael world class, an would more or less put those guys in the similar category of ability in wrestling.

    5)for mma guys who don't come from a wrestling b/g what are the chances they can develop their game enough to effectively def or get back up against the better wrestlers i.e. sonnen's lawals lesnars warrens etc.
     
  2. Galahad

    Galahad Orange Belt

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    1)based off of his fight w/roy nelson, how good do u assess junior's takedown def to be; i know roy isn't a high level wrestler; but w/in mma, he seems very able in taking down any and all guys he fight, he couldn't do it in that fight..what does that say.


    Hard to say - Roy's shots were some of the laziest I've seen in a high level match in awhile.

    2)how the hell does mark munoz wrestling, not translate over to mma that well; based on his accomplishments shouldnt he more or less take folks down at will

    some just cannot adapt to mma

    3)is jon jones ability to throw and outwrestle people a matter of such great tech or the more obvious once in a lifetime athleticism dynamic ability coordination and explosiveness.

    both

    4)is chael sonnen more or less the equal of king mo in wrestling; as mo often says most guys aren't world class, a silver in world championships would make chael world class, an would more or less put those guys in the similar category of ability in wrestling.


    chael didn't get a silver at world's, he got a silver at world university championships - still very legit, not taking anything away from him. As for who's better, or if they're equal - that's a very difficult thing to answer.

    5)for mma guys who don't come from a wrestling b/g what are the chances they can develop their game enough to effectively def or get back up against the better wrestlers i.e. sonnen's lawals lesnars warrens etc.


    it's possible - see GSP. but you better start as soon as possible and train with some high level partners. And train HARD.
     
  3. fishbone138

    fishbone138 White Belt

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    5)for mma guys who don't come from a wrestling b/g what are the chances they can develop their game enough to effectively def or get back up against the better wrestlers i.e. sonnen's lawals lesnars warrens etc.




    Wrestling is all about hip position.....yes it takes years of pratice to have it down to a science but with that said..some guys are just naturals. I have wrestled for many years and have seen some people take to it like a sponge (like they were born to do it) and others struggle. When I coach kids, I can always tell the ones who are going to have an easier time, because they have quick hips. In my opinion, an mma guy could become great fairly quick at wrestling def/off with the right gifts and dedication. It would take an exceptional athlete though (GSP, or the likes)
     
  4. Connoisseur

    Connoisseur Purple Belt

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    I'd say that it's at the very least, quite good. Roy is damn good at trip takedowns from the clinch, and Junior showed very good hips in stuffing Roy repeatedly throughout. He also sprung right back up from a Gonzaga takedown in their fight. It'll be interesting to see how he does against one of the holy trinity of elite, brutish HW wrestlers populating the top of the division in Lesnar/ Cain/ Carwin, and IMO considering that he couldn't put Big Country away w/ just hand combos, he'll want to work on diversifying his striking arsenal- including some leg kicks & knees/ elbows in the clinch.



    Munoz' pure wrestling is fantastic, but what came to light against Okami was that since Yushin has developed a great jab, he was able to dictate the pace & distance of the standup, and so he was able to stuff Munoz' telegraphed shots with relative ease. Also, Mark showed no ability to feint, mix strikes with his shots, etc etc.

    Watching the way that Jones can take very good wrestlers down so easily is an amazing thing; it's a combination of being a freak athlete, flawless technique, and really setting his takedowns up perfectly. It's in transition where he's been able to really excel, and that's the 1 aspect of the game that guys either seem to either pick up naturally, or struggle with their whole career.

    Chael has great wrestling creds- via wiki:
    "He was an NCAA Division I All-American wrestler at the University of Oregon, two-time University National Champion in Greco Roman, and a US Olympic team alternate".

    King Mo is actually a more accomplished wrestler, he was ranked #1 in his weight class for a period of time, here are his creds:
    [/U]


    Staying off your back can be developed, yes. Crocop never wrestled a day in his life until he started training MMA, and he developed a nasty sprawl. BJ Penn never wrestled as a kid, but has some of the best takedown defense in the game. Getting off your back is more of a Jiu Jitsu issue, though; generally, you have to use sweeps/ scrambles on the mat to regain your feet. Especially for MMA, there are a few very prevalent ways of doing this, and training is the best way to get good at these. When I trained at Xtreme Couture, those specific transitions are emphasized quite a bit during MMA class.
     
  5. CyberFreq

    CyberFreq Blue Belt

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    Specifically, the reason why Munoz's wrestling seems to not translate to MMA is because he won his matches with counter-wrestling; for example, waiting for the opponent to shoot, sprawling, then taking the back for takedown points as opposed to initiating the takedown first.

    Also, getting up from your back is a BJJ thing more than a wrestling thing. Sweeps are the best way because every pure wrestling way to get up involves giving up the back and while that may be fine (and preferred) in wrestling, in grappling it is a huge nono. Quickest and dirtiest way to stand up is to put both feet on the hips and SHOVE hard. Make that space then scramble for the feet.
     
  6. supersuk

    supersuk White Belt

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    2.) Hes not setting up his takedowns in MMA, where as I would guess (since I've never seen him wrestle) he'd setup his takedowns in wrestling.
     

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