A different look at JDS' takedown defense

[lfd0311]

I know a lot of people like to claim that Dos Santos has the best takedown defense in MMA, and I know there have probably been literally thousands of threads started on this topic, but I'd like to point out a few things I've noticed about JDS that go unmentioned in this never ending debate.

1.) Dos Santos doesn't have that good of TDD from a wrestling standpoint. The few times we've seen another fighter get to his legs, he's been taken to the ground somewhat easily, although he's gotten back up. Carwin basically dropped him to his butt from all fours, and Nelson, who isn't a good wrestler, would have put him straight to his back 3 times if not for the fence.

2.) JDS' boxing is what makes his TDD so good. I know that sounds a little ridiculous, but that's what makes Dos Santos so special. His ability to control distance with his boxing, his footwork and punching power are the keys to his takedown defense. His jab allows him to keep people outside of takedown range, and his power in both hands stops anyone who gets inside takedown range from really committing to any shot they take.

While I've said that I don't believe he has the best actual takedown defense, I believe he is the fighter least likely to be taken down, if that makes sense, because of the factors listed above.

 

[Tigerknee]

Well Cain will be nervous of being KO'ed again so I don't think his wrestling will be as good as people think it will be in this fight

 

[pluginsocket]

So you say A is not A but effectively is A.

Thanks.

 

[RedRover]

Yawn...
"if not for the fence"
Fighters know where the fence is and they use it as a tool to stay standing, it's not coincidence that he ended up there and didn't get taken down...

 

[TrueGrit]

Sooo essentially his take down defense isn't all that good, but his defense against being taken down is? lol I get what you're saying, but I respectively disagree that he doesn't have a strong ability to stay on his feet once his opponents shoot and get a leg. I don't know if I've ever read someone claim JDS has the best TDD in all of MMA though.

 

[Shaysan]

JDS should faint and shoot for the take down straight away. Who would be expecting that?

I can see it now; JDS wins by TKO GnP!

 

[TFanatic]

Part of tdd is distance control. Machida has excellent tdd, but is rarely shot in on because he has a good amount of distance and can maintain it.

And if we use the no fence argument, keep in mind JDS would have knocked Roy into the audience once or twice before he managed a takedown.

 

[MCS]

Agree with the jab part completely. His stance is wide and he often leans forward, extending that jab as a "wall" to get past. That's his first defense, or his power hand, like Houston Alexander would've said.

He doesn't have a great sprawl, but his Chuck-like ability to escape grappling is fantastic.

 

[MTFFC]

Cain already scared just like in the first fight

 

[BrazilianDude]

Yawn...
"if not for the fence"
Fighters know where the fence is and they use it as a tool to stay standing, it's not coincidence that he ended up there and didn't get taken down...

Good point.

Also His range control and footwork are what makes his TDD very good, but he also uses a stance that seems to bait single leg attempts, which he defends very well.

Honestly I think range control and footwork are more impressive than a powerful sprawl. Just watch Jones fighting Rashad. He didn't even give him a chance to try a good td.

 

[LegendaryBrolly]

Footwork is the key to TDD for a striker, not straight wrestling.

 

[QTdd**]

Well Cain will be nervous of being KO'ed again so I don't think his wrestling will be as good as people think it will be in this fight

He got rocked twice against Kongo and he still stormed after him.
Cain's going to be relentless with his attempt, but not stupid and careless.

 

[Non]

He also has great balance and reaction time. What a lot of people seem to ignore is the fact Cain had a leg and shot on Dos Santos within the first 30 seconds of the fight.

Cain caught a kick to the body, similar to the Bigfoot fight, and in less than a second he had the leg and shot. Dos Santos easily got his leg back and sidestepped Cain. Pretty much the exact takedown we saw drop Bigfoot was laughed at by Junior.

 

[snaportap21]

Here is what it comes down to he gives people trouble getting him down and springs back up once he is down that is all that matters

 

[b2spirita]

JDS should faint and shoot for the take down straight away. Who would be expecting that?

I can see it now; JDS wins by TKO GnP!

how will passing out help him?

 

[wigglestick]

Yawn...
"if not for the fence"
Fighters know where the fence is and they use it as a tool to stay standing, it's not coincidence that he ended up there and didn't get taken down...

I thought the exact same when reading that, same with when mir tryed to take him down.

JDS should faint and shoot for the take down straight away. Who would be expecting that?

I can see it now; JDS wins by TKO GnP!

I think about stuff like this sometimes, but with jds your right with his bjj advantage it would be cool to takedown cain if he sees an advantage to or hurts him because cain won't expect it

 

[van1ty]

Yes op, your point makes sense.

JDS is difficult to take down not because he possesses strong wrestling skills, but because he controls distance well with his boxing.

 

[Mountainman18]

Yawn...
"if not for the fence"
Fighters know where the fence is and they use it as a tool to stay standing, it's not coincidence that he ended up there and didn't get taken down...

Agreed if you watch close enough many guys defend single legs by hopping to the fence and engaging in the clinch. Maybe if they were fighting in a field Roy could have got him down.

 

[Mountainman18]

He got rocked twice against Kongo and he still stormed after him.
Cain's going to be relentless with his attempt, but not stupid and careless.

I have to disagree he gets pretty careless trying to rush in with sloppy punches when he starts getting hit or is rocked.

 

[Hester65]

Agree with the jab part completely. His stance is wide and he often leans forward, extending that jab as a "wall" to get past. That's his first defense, or his power hand, like Houston Alexander would've said.

He doesn't have a great sprawl, but his Chuck-like ability to escape grappling is fantastic.

Great analogy to Liddell. Both of those fighters have similar scramble antics once somebody does get to them. Very interesting how effective it is for them...

He also has great balance and reaction time. What a lot of people seem to ignore is the fact Cain had a leg and shot on Dos Santos within the first 30 seconds of the fight.

Cain caught a kick to the body, similar to the Bigfoot fight, and in less than a second he had the leg and shot. Dos Santos easily got his leg back and sidestepped Cain. Pretty much the exact takedown we saw drop Bigfoot was laughed at by Junior.

They were not the same situations. Velasquez was waiting for that moment & was closer in range to Silva. His strategy in that fight was to catch the kick & then work his grappling. He didn't have to think about excellent hand speed or kayo power.

Those are just as big of assets to JDS takedown d to his above average athletism for a large man. JDS has a great set of tools for stopping takedowns but he doesn't have the depth of Velasquez in the grappling rhelm. Of course he wouldn't but he doesn't exactly need that though to beat him & he showed that...