A different look at JDS' takedown defense

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by lfd0311, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. lfd0311

    lfd0311 Pink Belt

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    I know a lot of people like to claim that Dos Santos has the best takedown defense in MMA, and I know there have probably been literally thousands of threads started on this topic, but I'd like to point out a few things I've noticed about JDS that go unmentioned in this never ending debate.

    1.) Dos Santos doesn't have that good of TDD from a wrestling standpoint. The few times we've seen another fighter get to his legs, he's been taken to the ground somewhat easily, although he's gotten back up. Carwin basically dropped him to his butt from all fours, and Nelson, who isn't a good wrestler, would have put him straight to his back 3 times if not for the fence.

    2.) JDS' boxing is what makes his TDD so good. I know that sounds a little ridiculous, but that's what makes Dos Santos so special. His ability to control distance with his boxing, his footwork and punching power are the keys to his takedown defense. His jab allows him to keep people outside of takedown range, and his power in both hands stops anyone who gets inside takedown range from really committing to any shot they take.

    While I've said that I don't believe he has the best actual takedown defense, I believe he is the fighter least likely to be taken down, if that makes sense, because of the factors listed above.
     
  2. Tigerknee

    Tigerknee Red Belt

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    Well Cain will be nervous of being KO'ed again so I don't think his wrestling will be as good as people think it will be in this fight
     
  3. pluginsocket

    pluginsocket Yellow Belt

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    So you say A is not A but effectively is A.

    Thanks.
     
  4. RedRover

    RedRover Orange Belt

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    Yawn...
    "if not for the fence"
    Fighters know where the fence is and they use it as a tool to stay standing, it's not coincidence that he ended up there and didn't get taken down...
     
  5. TrueGrit

    TrueGrit Purple Belt

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    Eh?
    Sooo essentially his take down defense isn't all that good, but his defense against being taken down is? lol I get what you're saying, but I respectively disagree that he doesn't have a strong ability to stay on his feet once his opponents shoot and get a leg. I don't know if I've ever read someone claim JDS has the best TDD in all of MMA though.
     
  6. Shaysan

    Shaysan Blue Belt

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    JDS should faint and shoot for the take down straight away. Who would be expecting that?

    I can see it now; JDS wins by TKO GnP!
     
  7. TFanatic

    TFanatic Silver Belt

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    Part of tdd is distance control. Machida has excellent tdd, but is rarely shot in on because he has a good amount of distance and can maintain it.

    And if we use the no fence argument, keep in mind JDS would have knocked Roy into the audience once or twice before he managed a takedown.
     
  8. MCS

    MCS Gold Belt

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    Agree with the jab part completely. His stance is wide and he often leans forward, extending that jab as a "wall" to get past. That's his first defense, or his power hand, like Houston Alexander would've said.

    He doesn't have a great sprawl, but his Chuck-like ability to escape grappling is fantastic.
     
  9. MTFFC

    MTFFC Blue Belt

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    Cain already scared just like in the first fight
     
  10. BrazilianDude

    BrazilianDude Gold Belt

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    Good point.

    Also His range control and footwork are what makes his TDD very good, but he also uses a stance that seems to bait single leg attempts, which he defends very well.

    Honestly I think range control and footwork are more impressive than a powerful sprawl. Just watch Jones fighting Rashad. He didn't even give him a chance to try a good td.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012
  11. LegendaryBrolly

    LegendaryBrolly Brown Belt

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    Footwork is the key to TDD for a striker, not straight wrestling.
     
  12. QTdd**

    QTdd** Green Belt

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    He got rocked twice against Kongo and he still stormed after him.
    Cain's going to be relentless with his attempt, but not stupid and careless.
     
  13. Non

    Non Touch Butt Champion

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    He also has great balance and reaction time. What a lot of people seem to ignore is the fact Cain had a leg and shot on Dos Santos within the first 30 seconds of the fight.

    Cain caught a kick to the body, similar to the Bigfoot fight, and in less than a second he had the leg and shot. Dos Santos easily got his leg back and sidestepped Cain. Pretty much the exact takedown we saw drop Bigfoot was laughed at by Junior.
     
  14. snaportap21

    snaportap21 Green Belt

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    Here is what it comes down to he gives people trouble getting him down and springs back up once he is down that is all that matters
     
  15. b2spirita

    b2spirita Blue Belt

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    how will passing out help him?
     
  16. wigglestick

    wigglestick pess de gward Platinum Member

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    I thought the exact same when reading that, same with when mir tryed to take him down.

    I think about stuff like this sometimes, but with jds your right with his bjj advantage it would be cool to takedown cain if he sees an advantage to or hurts him because cain won't expect it
     
  17. van1ty

    van1ty Banned Banned

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    Yes op, your point makes sense.

    JDS is difficult to take down not because he possesses strong wrestling skills, but because he controls distance well with his boxing.
     
  18. Mountainman18

    Mountainman18 Orange Belt

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    Agreed if you watch close enough many guys defend single legs by hopping to the fence and engaging in the clinch. Maybe if they were fighting in a field Roy could have got him down.
     
  19. Mountainman18

    Mountainman18 Orange Belt

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    I have to disagree he gets pretty careless trying to rush in with sloppy punches when he starts getting hit or is rocked.
     
  20. Hester65

    Hester65 Black Belt

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    Great analogy to Liddell. Both of those fighters have similar scramble antics once somebody does get to them. Very interesting how effective it is for them...


    They were not the same situations. Velasquez was waiting for that moment & was closer in range to Silva. His strategy in that fight was to catch the kick & then work his grappling. He didn't have to think about excellent hand speed or kayo power.

    Those are just as big of assets to JDS takedown d to his above average athletism for a large man. JDS has a great set of tools for stopping takedowns but he doesn't have the depth of Velasquez in the grappling rhelm. Of course he wouldn't but he doesn't exactly need that though to beat him & he showed that...
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012

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