Economy A conservative solution to climate change - part 2

[Sano]

Potholer is a legit beast. He destroys these fools with style and grace.

Two thumbs up for posting this thread.

Agree. Potholer is THE man when it comes to climate change science. He's one of the best science researcers out there, as well as an excellent presenter.

 

[Sano]

That's cool.

Just to be clear, even if there is no statistical evidence that the temperature is changing at a rate outside of normal activity, that would not be evidence against MMCC. It would just tampons down a bit of the alarmism I think.

I have 2 major issues with the climate change discussion. The models, which I do not put much stock in, being used by the media in inflamatory fashion. And 2nd, the far more pressing issue, of what to do about it. I don't trust carbon taxes. There is a version of carbon tax I could support, but no one but a man named Dylan ratigan have I heard mention this approach to a carbon tax. Basically it would work like social security fund. People pay in to a fund, and it is issued back out at the end of the year to individual Americans to spend how they want, but with the goal of making efficiency upgrades, like a more fuel efficient vehicle, solar panels, new insulation, new windows, ect.

What I am far more interested in, is treating a drive to hydrogen or fusion energy like we are at war. Literally dumping trillions into it, and mobilizing every sector of our country. Sell free college, as free STEM, and needing scientists to save us. Make military propaganda commercials for the science Corp, give them a sharp looking uniform and a fire monster to fight. The few, the proud, the science Corp.

I will not support a carbon tax, whose funds go into the general coffer.

Don't be this daft..... there's PLENTY of no nonsense data showing the rate of increase is vastly superior to any normal fluctuation. Don't look at the media, look at the science and hard data.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Actually, we know that the biggest driver of climate change is the sun.

Correct! But Total Solar Irradiance has been decreasing the past few decades so why has our temperature been increasing?

https://www.carbonbrief.org/why-the-sun-is-not-responsible-for-recent-climate-change

 

[Sano]

Correct! But Total Solar Irradiance has been decreasing the past few decades so why has our temperature been increasing?

https://www.carbonbrief.org/why-the-sun-is-not-responsible-for-recent-climate-change

This knowledge is readily avaliable. It's ridiculous that people do not take 10 minutes to look it up.

 

[no fat chicks]

It really saddens me that this has become political. there is a certain poster that went full TCK and kept placing the blinders on and doing some amazing mental gymnastics to avoid owning up to anything

 

[Andy Capp]

-Bemoans leftists saying nothing can be done about climate change without the dismantling of capitalism, demonstrates how this is wrong and why it's a masochistic approach that won't convince anyone and is actually damaging efforts to do something about it

I'm triggered by this. The only, and I mean absolutely the only, argument I have ever seen from the left is that green energy will help the economy, not hurt it. Not a single fucking time have I seen anyone say the current market economy will need to suffer from going green; in fact, opposition to migration to a green economy is always right-wingers claiming it will be a job killer and cost everyone lots of money, which is bullshit, which I have always maintained is bullshit, and which lots of other WR lefties have always claimed is bullshit.

 

[deviake]

I'm triggered by this. The only, and I mean absolutely the only, argument I have ever seen from the left is that green energy will help the economy, not hurt it. Not a single fucking time have I seen anyone say the current market economy will need to suffer from going green; in fact, opposition to migration to a green economy is always right-wingers claiming it will be a job killer and cost everyone lots of money, which is bullshit, which I have always maintained is bullshit, and which lots of other WR lefties have always claimed is bullshit.

I think he's talking about a vocal minority who don't think Capitalism is compatible with renewable energy, and that in order to save the planet, Capitalism has to be dismantled. While I'm certainly critical of Capitalism to say the least, I think his side is that he disagrees and thinks they're not helping because they're giving right wingers a cop-out to say "look! These crazy lefties just want to destroy the economy! That's their real agenda!"

 

[7437]

Don't be this daft..... there's PLENTY of no nonsense data showing the rate of increase is vastly superior to any normal fluctuation. Don't look at the media, look at the science and hard data.

I gave him a link to NASA and he whined about the media.

 

[TeTe]

This knowledge is readily avaliable. It's ridiculous that people do not take 10 minutes to look it up.

Doesn't make what I said any less correct

 

[Andy Capp]

I think he's talking about a vocal minority who don't think Capitalism is compatible with renewable energy, and that in order to save the planet, Capitalism has to be dismantled. While I'm certainly critical of Capitalism to say the least, I think his side is that he disagrees and thinks they're not helping because they're giving right wingers a cop-out to say "look! These crazy lefties just want to destroy the economy! That's their real agenda!"

But the vocal minority appears to be a very small number of individuals, an insignificant number in fact, if I can go by the fact this is the first I ever heard of such a movement.

 

[deviake]

But the vocal minority appears to be a very small number of individuals, an insignificant number in fact, if I can go by the fact this is the first I ever heard of such a movement.

I'd have to look into it as well. To my knowledge there is no large movement of leftists saying this much less getting anything near mainstream attention though I've seen the occasional person say this on the internets. Maybe he knows something we don't and just wanted to address it? I don't know.

 

[Andy Capp]

Here is a video of some things I think even conservative deniers would find sensible.

Got to the 4:40 mark where he talks about the role of food and land management. @Madmick just got a rage boner and doesn't know why... lol
The guy makes good points. Good luck implementing any of them on a global basis, though, sadly.

 

[Prutfis]

When Yellowstone blows up or any other of the super volcanoes, the planet will turn into a frozen popsicle for the next 10 thousand years. And they WILL blow up, it's only a matter of time. People will be begging for global warming then.

Not even close. A Yellowstone eruption (while very devastating) wouldn´t even kill all life in North America. Ice sickle for 10k years hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Where do you get this nonsense?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Here is statistical evidence where they show global temperatures over the last 100 years and CO2 levels.

https://globalclimate.ucr.edu/resources.html

This is their climate page, one of the links of which goes to the page that 7437 posted.

https://climate.nasa.gov/

And of course they have a ton of sources. potholer54's channel has a lot of videos dedicated to looking at climate change deniers rebuttals to the information.

The models you speak of are based off of CO2 measurements of all kinds, past climate trends, human activity, etc. I've read articles that some of their models have actually understated how fast the warming trend is accelerating.

So here is the graph that shows temperature rising you provided.

Here is a graph showing the temperature over 65 million years.

What about the current warming trend is statistically outside the range of natural climate change?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Oops wrong graph, that is for 10,000 years. Makes the point better anyways. 65 million is too large a scale.