Law 75% of Americans want to keep preexisting condition protection

[lifelessheap]

Your health and a car aren't the same thing, pretty stupid comparison. Pre existing conditions can vary in many ways and are not always deliberate.

Car insurance is insurance. Health insurance is also insurance.

You need to consult a dictionary because you don't understand what insurance is.

 

[cooks1]

Which is why a lot of conservatives are against the ACA. Its built on a sandy foundation

The ACA was just a half hearted attempt to segway to a universal model. To let scared shitless legislators and companies ease into it. Sort of stick their toe in the water. Obama should have gone all in when he had the chance.

The sad irony is that doing nothing would have probably led to it happening sooner.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...er-health-coverage-grows-driven-by-democrats/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health...deral-government-ensure-health-care-poll-says

Make no mistake. Everyone knows a Universal model has to happen. The employer based model has been an anachronism for decades. We have known this since Clinton was in office, but people didn't want to hear that shit from Hillary and she did not really do a good job building consensus.

Let me tell you something else. It absolutely fucking baffles me that businesses are fighting this. They scream NO NO NO, and as soon as they are done shouting, they bitch about costs and plot to find ways to offer shittier coverage to fewer employees.

Once a Universal model gets put in place, companies will LOVE not being in the healthcare business. And If they wish, they will still be able to offer gold plated private plans as a perk.

 

[ineverpost]

Everyone wants something and everyone wants someone else to pay for it.

 

[lifelessheap]

Just when you think Sherdog can't get any dumber.

Try to buy a life insurance policy for a dead family member. That is the logic you are using. That is how insanely dumb your position is.

Insurance at its most basic and fundamental level is a precautionary product. You need to purchase it before you need it. Otherwise it is 100% unsustainable.

Seriously, burn your house down and try to buy insurance to cover it after the fact. That is your position. Don't you see how that is really, really dumb? Nobody would buy auto or home insurance if you could buy it after a catastrophic incident to cover your losses. You need to have protection beforehand. The same must apply for health insurance.

I can't believe how reality and simple concepts aren't understood here.

And you claim I am the dumb one? Grab a fucking dictionary and look up what insurance is.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

The ACA was just a half hearted attempt to segway to a universal model. To let scared shitless legislators and companies ease into it. Sort of stick their toe in the water. Obama should have gone all in when he had the chance.

The sad irony is that doing nothing would have probably led to it happening sooner.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...er-health-coverage-grows-driven-by-democrats/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health...deral-government-ensure-health-care-poll-says

Make no mistake. Everyone knows a Universal model has to happen. The employer based model has been an anachronism for decades. We have known this since Clinton was in office, but people didn't want to hear that shit from Hillary and she did not really do a good job building consensus.

Let me tell you something else. It absolutely fucking baffles me that businesses are fighting this. They scream NO NO NO, and as soon as they are done shouting, they bitch about costs and plot to find ways to offer shittier coverage to fewer employees.

Once a Universal model gets put in place, companies will LOVE not being in the healthcare business. And If they wish, they will still be able to offer gold plated private plans as a perk.

No it doesnt need to happen... what happens with every other product that is priced to fail?

We as a populace accept 10k medical bills for giving birth when our ancestors did it for thousands of years without. We accept paying a thousand dollars for a few stitches when people have been sewing each other up for thousands of years. We accept bloodwork costing 500 dollars.

The issue with medical costs is the people feel entitled to lower costs while doing absolutely nothing to ensure the costs are lowered.

 

[woodguyatl]

Try to buy a life insurance policy for a dead family member. That is the logic you are using. That is how insanely dumb your position is.

Insurance at its most basic and fundamental level is a precautionary product. You need to purchase it before you need it. Otherwise it is 100% unsustainable.

Seriously, burn your house down and try to buy insurance to cover it after the fact. That is your position. Don't you see how that is really, really dumb? Nobody would buy auto or home insurance if you could buy it after a catastrophic incident to cover your losses. You need to have protection beforehand. The same must apply for health insurance.

I can't believe how reality and simple concepts aren't understood here.

And you claim I am the dumb one? Grab a fucking dictionary and look up what insurance is.

You are acting like insurance companies didn’t already cover preexistimg conditions every day before the ACA. This just basically prevents them from doing it in the individual market.

 

[Prefect]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/04/pol...protections-that-lawsuit-seeks-to-repeal.html

20 Republican AGs are trying to end the ACA by arguing that without the individual mandate the law is unconstitutional. However, the protection for people with preexisting conditions is quite popular. 72% of people polled said they want the prohibition on charging sick people more for insurance to remain.

Ah, how do you create an insurance mandate to protect people with pre-existing conditions if there isn't an insurance pool large enough or a coverage mandate to pay for their liabilities? Someone really wants to have their cake and eat it, too.

 

[Swoliosis]

Car insurance is insurance. Health insurance is also insurance.

You need to consult a dictionary because you don't understand what insurance is.

Please re read my previous post.

People and cars are not the same thing.

 

[cooks1]

No it doesnt need to happen... what happens with every other product that is priced to fail?

We as a populace accept 10k medical bills for giving birth when our ancestors did it for thousands of years without. We accept paying a thousand dollars for a few stitches when people have been sewing each other up for thousands of years. We accept bloodwork costing 500 dollars.

The issue with medical costs is the people feel entitled to lower costs while doing absolutely nothing to ensure the costs are lowered.

Actually, our ancestors lived for thousands of years with Universal coverage. Tribes had shaman and midwives, and those people provided those services to the tribe for no money.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Actually, our ancestors lived for thousands of years with Universal coverage. Tribes had shaman and midwives, and those people provided those services to the tribe for no money.

And those shaman and midwives did their jobs out of duty or choice. Definitely wasn't government mandated.

The point being let shit happen naturally. Get help if you can find it, but dont accept astronomical dollar amounts because it seems normal. Very few people would be willing to pay 10gs for a baby delivery they could have at home. Why do so many do it then?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

No it doesnt need to happen... what happens with every other product that is priced to fail?

We as a populace accept 10k medical bills for giving birth when our ancestors did it for thousands of years without. We accept paying a thousand dollars for a few stitches when people have been sewing each other up for thousands of years. We accept bloodwork costing 500 dollars.

The issue with medical costs is the people feel entitled to lower costs while doing absolutely nothing to ensure the costs are lowered.

Thanks to recent blood work my doctor ordered I found out I needed to make a diet change that could prevent me from having kidney failure. Preventive medicine is not only good because it prevents suffering. It also ends up saving money.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Thanks to recent blood work my doctor ordered I found out I needed to make a diet change that could prevent me from having kidney failure. Preventive medicine is not only good because it prevents suffering. It also ends up saving money.

My issue isn't with bloodwork or hospitals at all. Quite the contrary. It's with said bloodwork costing somebody $500. Because you don't actually pay 500 out of pocket you are happy. Because insurance companies make so much off their customers they are happy to pay it.

There is absolutely zero incentive to lower cost.

unfortunately for my position, I dont have a clear cut solution. Without insurance people would demand lower costs or wouldnt show up. Supply/demand and all that. On the other hand, people are so afraid of their own mortality they'd jump off a cliff if they thought it would save them. It's such a FUBAR situation that I want government as far away as possible from it

 

[cooks1]

And those shaman and midwives did their jobs out of duty or choice. Definitely wasn't government mandated.

The point being let shit happen naturally. Get help if you can find it, but dont accept astronomical dollar amounts because it seems normal. Very few people would be willing to pay 10gs for a baby delivery they could have at home. Why do so many do it then?

Do you realize how absurd you sound? Read what you just wrote for Christ sakes.

Very few people would be willing to pay 10gs for a baby delivery they could have at home. Why do so many do it then

All sorts of knuckleheads are capable of contradicting themselves, but it takes a truly A-level, athletic and explosive idiot to contradict themselves in the same fucking sentence.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Do you realize how absurd you sound? Read what you just wrote for Christ sakes.



All sorts of knuckleheads are capable of contradicting themselves, but it takes a truly A-level, athletic and explosive idiot to contradict themselves in the same fucking sentence.

I'm saying its absurd that we accept it as well. I think because the money doesnt actually come directly from our pocket, we are complacent at the astronomical costs.

Try to understand somebody better before you go off the handle like a drunken fool.

 

[cooks1]

My issue isn't with bloodwork or hospitals at all. Quite the contrary. It's with said bloodwork costing somebody $500. Because you don't actually pay 500 out of pocket you are happy. Because insurance companies make so much off their customers they are happy to pay it.

There is absolutely zero incentive to lower cost.

unfortunately for my position, I dont have a clear cut solution. Without insurance people would demand lower costs or wouldnt show up. Supply/demand and all that. On the other hand, people are so afraid of their own mortality they'd jump off a cliff if they thought it would save them. It's such a FUBAR situation that I want government as far away as possible from it

Your problem is you realize for profit insurance is not a good model. But you are so pathologically conditioned to hate the idea of universal healthcare that you don't realize that it very dramatically reduces the insurance model.

Take your 10K childbirth diatribe. Go anywhere in Europe and you will find that the cost of childbirth is approximately 10% of what it costs in the US. Not 10% less. 10% of the total cost. A vaginal delivery or C-section that costs 25K-30K in the US will cost maybe between $2000-$2500 there.

 

[cooks1]

I'm saying its absurd that we accept it as well. I think because the money doesnt actually come directly from our pocket, we are complacent at the astronomical costs.

Try to understand somebody better before you go off the handle like a drunken fool.

Whatever you are on dude- lower the dosage. You simultaneously said hardly anyone would accept it yet so many do. It's right there.

And WTF do you mean it does not come from our pocket? Of course it does. The average family insurance plan in the US is $833.00 a month with a $7900 deductible.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Your problem is you realize for profit insurance is not a good model. But you are so pathologically conditioned to hate the idea of universal healthcare that you don't realize that it very dramatically reduces the insurance model.

Take your 10K childbirth diatribe. Go anywhere in Europe and you will find that the cost of childbirth is approximately 10% of what it costs in the US. Not 10% less. 10% of the total cost. A vaginal delivery or C-section that costs 25K-30K in the US will cost maybe between $2000-$2500 there.

I'm conditioned to hate universal healthcare? Fuck off with your nonsense bro. I dislike it because it's in conflict with my principles.

You can dislike UHC, and also dislike the way for profit insurance institutions are ran.

I'm glad it lowers cost. Do the wealthy subsidize the poor?

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Whatever you are on dude- lower the dosage. You simultaneously said hardly anyone would accept it yet so many do. It's right there.

And WTF do you mean it does not come from our pocket? Of course it does. The average family insurance plan in the US is $833.00 a month with a $7900 deductible.

Chill out dude.

Lots of prenatal care (where the costs rack up) are preventive and are immune from the deductible.

You arent even trying to understand the other point of view tho. Have a good night guy

 

[cooks1]

I'm conditioned to hate universal healthcare? Fuck off with your nonsense bro. I dislike it because it's in conflict with my principles.

You can dislike UHC, and also dislike the way for profit insurance institutions are ran.

I'm glad it lowers cost. Do the wealthy subsidize the poor?

In some places yes and in some no. And to varying degrees. Some places are just straight up single payer universal models where HC cost are just government funded and it comes out of taxes. But even in those models you would have to say the wealthy subsidize the poor to the extent that they pay more of the taxes.

Other places have hybrid models where there is a universal model, but citizens are still required to pay into a health savings account (individual mandate). Contributions and the % of the fees that are subsidized are typically both means driven.

In all these places though, even the ones with single payer models, you can still purchase supplemental plans through the private market.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

In some places yes and in some no. And to varying degrees. Some places are just straight up single payer universal models where HC cost are just government funded and it comes out of taxes. But even in those models you would have to say the wealthy subsidize the poor to the extent that they pay more of the taxes.

This is where I take issue with the matter. I'm against a progressive tax system and other variations of the rich subsidizing the poor. (UHC)

Again, my reasoning is based in my principles. Feel free to disagree with me, but I'm not a leaf blowing in the wind of the parties draft