5 Years Since The Sale: Is The UFC Better?

The fertitta’s were the ones with the power to change things before just maximizing their take. Not Dana….

yes, and they also allowed Dana to do what he does too. that's what i'm saying. people in here are acting like Lorenzo is the man and Dana is a cunt but Lorenzo is the reason Dana is as powerful as he is over fighters. Joe Silva also flourished under their reign and look what a fuckin douchebag he was to the fighters. Lorenzo knew these guys and employed them. he knew what kind of people they were and that's probably why he kept them on.

the fighters were getting dicked from the very beginning, the only difference now is there's a lot more money in MMA.
 
It’s hard to say what a champion does when just about zero champions follow that ethos, and because it does require putting some sort of code before family, prosperity, wealth and individual power. Would you put a code first, ahead of your family interests?
You mean compared to what fighting has ALWAYS been about? Where being the champ automatically meant the most money?

Where in history has fighting a clown like Conor ever meant more money than fighting for the title? It’s only because of the pathetic fanbase he has where that has ever been in doubt.
 
Are you seriously going to try to defend him calling out an Ex-LW he just beat? And you think that’s a legit title defence, compared to a guy on a 7 (I believe) fight winning streak at the time?

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Should I just assume you’re a GSP hater, or do I need to actually search your history. lol

uhh ...no. i just genuinely wondered why you were upset with Usman. i don't really keep up with what fighters say.
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Ufc has been declining as they rely more on the power of their brand and less on quality fights.
 
I think it’s gotten quite a lot worse. There’s issues with the matchmaking, champs refusing to fight (although I sympathise on the pay front), quality of cards, the new PPV system, and much more.

What’s really struck me, though, is that the UFC seems to have lost its spirit since WME came in. I’m not going to absolve Zuffa of any blame, because they did bring in the Reebok deal, and that certainly helped in taking away originality. I feel that the Reebok deal was done so they would have an easier time cashing out though. Same deal with USADA.

The commentary has gone down the drain. I really liked Goldberg. Anik just doesn’t get me excited. The Brendan guy is alright, but he doesn’t replace Goldberg for me.

Rogan’s commentary has clearly declined. He is so unprofessional now and when he’s with DC it can get super annoying as they influence the casuals and act like Holloway vs Volk 1 was close. Same deal with when they had Izzy ahead vs Jan.

I’m a fight fan first and foremost, but we don’t have many good personalities in the sport these days. There’s a lot of cookie cutter guys and then there’s a lot of guys who are just cringeworthy and annoying. Thanks Conor and thanks to the UFC and WME for rewarding these cringeworthy fighters with better spots on cards and better pay. It’s harder for me to connect with the new fighters. Out of the new guys, I like Kevin Holland because he seems authentic.

The music on cards is far worse these days. It’s just generic soft rock that doesn’t build any hype during the promos. Face the Pain may be associated with the dude bro era, but when it came on during the PPV opening it always got me hyped.


The tweets on screen are annoying. Half of them are from celebs who have connections to WME and they probably aren’t even watching the fights.


The fans are worse imo. The Brock fans could be annoying, but since Conor the quality of the fan base has declined. We have a bunch of casuals who aren’t fight fans and instead prefer the drama. These people then slander good fighters, read Wikipedia, and then come out with stupid statements. I do like drama sometimes and I’m cool with certain people wrestling elements being implemented occasionally, but I watch MMA because I like fighting.

The actual fighting may not really be worse, but there’s too many bums on cards. Fat heavyweights with no cardio and cardio kickboxers. I like good WMMA, but most of it is poor at best.

I just don’t get hyped like I used to. Part of that is probably because I’m older, but I do feel as though the UFC has declined. 2019 was quite a good year, but the past couple haven’t been consistently good imo. I liked MMA and more specifically the UFC because it was unique and cool back in the noughties. Most of what made it cool to me back then has now been lost.

The next few PPV cards do look quite good though. If I wanted to pick apart UFC 266 I easily could though. The main event is legitimately good, but Valentina is fighting somebody who is nowhere near her level. The biggest fight on the card is Diaz vs Lawler 2. Diaz hasn’t fought in over 6 years and began fighting 20 years ago. Robbie Lawler has looked shot for quite a while now as well. I still really want to see the fight because I’m a huge fan of Nick, but it could end up being sad.

267 is headlined by two fighters who shouldn’t be two of the best at 205 in the UFC. I like Jan and his improvements have been very impressive, but he’s nearly 40 years old now. Glover is a nice guy but he’s clearly declined; he’s just lucky the division has also declined and the likes of Corey Anderson and Phil Davis are no longer around.
 
It's worse, in general, but still good. WMMA is a joke, and should be separate ppvs. The training and nutrition aspects keep getting better, as well as innate athletic talent of the competitors. However, WME has taken some fun out of it by keeping it pretty corporate in ways that some of you have already discussed. For people saying that Lorenzo was a softy, just remember that good cop/bad cop is a thing, and those guys (via their family) have ties to...organized types.
 
I don't think it's better. WME is basically only interested in getting a return on their investment as quickly as possible. They aren't interested in improving the product, and it shows. They won't pay their stars what they are worth, so a lot of the big names are either not fighting. Or else, they are going for money fights rather than competing for titles. The rankings mean nothing are just a tool to promote fights. Too many top heavy cards with only 1 or 2 good fights. The top guys seem to rarely fight and just sit around waiting for a title shot or money fight. There are a few big draws like Mas, Nate, and conman, and everyone wants to fight them. More guys want to fight Jake Paul than for a title it seems like. I could go on...
 
No, but in fairness to these wealthy buyers of the UFC, they probably aren't that much worse than the last rich buyers in substance.

Everyone seems to ignore the fact that the UFC has just not grown any talent depth- they don't have nearly enough to fill all these cards, and the sport was supposed to grow a bigger talent pool with time, IT HASN'T. Quite stagnant. And recognizable stars? Who- Jones? Conor? Great representatives of the sport, cough cough.

It's probable that a more equitable pay structure would help that situation to some degree. Kind of hard to get started in the sport on peanuts.
 
Of course not , it's rather common sense. Theres a reason why 145 & 155 have some depth while the heavier / crown jewel divisions have devolved . People have villainized Dana but hes trying to sustain the machine downstream..... and that will be a task.

Ferttitas arent stupid. SFORCE was the last treasure cove of talent absorbed back into 2012. Once all the combined talent aged or regressed , a watered down product was inevitable. 2016- 17ish was the ceiling of MMA. Dana makes sure his contender series runs - he has to .
 
It’s felt like for the last 5 years the ufc has been completely out of touch with their fan base and are doing the opposite of all the things we were hoping for.

More stacked cards? Nope

Better fight pacing through out the night? Nope.

Improved pricing and more affordable options? Nope

Exciting title fights? Half of them are rematches.

I’ve never felt more ignored by an organization I’ve consistently purchased products from for so long. Hey, look at the bright side. At least we got TUF back and an espn limited series detailing how Dana white grasped mma from the pits of hell during covid and brought it back to the fans.
Pay Per View Buys | Tapology

Bullshit. The top 10 PPVs have all been since the WME takeover.

If you really believe the UFC is out of touch, vote with your wallet. While numbers are booming out of the roof they are doing something right (it's a business).
 
It's 100 percent on WME, they are the ones who want the UFC cranking out events weekly for TV fees.

I don't think it's so much the number that gives people pause, but the fact that the number is the same no matter how shit a PPV is. It's indicative of larger problems.

My point is that they were already cranking out events nearly weekly BEFORE WME bought UFC. The sale was in July 2016. Here are the number of events by year. So it wasn't like, WME said to Dana, we need more events per year, they just kept it about the same.

2014 - 46
2015 - 41
2016 - 41
2017 - 39
2018 - 39
2019 - 42
2020 - 41
https://www.statista.com/statistics/681115/number-of-ultimate-fighting-championship-events/

So I wouldn't blame it on WME, if you want, blame it on Dana since he's been doing that since 2014.

But I do agree that short sighted match making is making the events a bit weaker in the WME era.
 
Well how many super fights have we had since ? Ok then
 
Well how many super fights have we had since ? Ok then
Nothing like the old days hey.... Chuck vs Wand. Fedor vs Brock. Anderson vs GSP. The only one giving us super fights back then was BJ but the dude is one of the most disrespected fighters on this site anyways so that can't really but what you guys love. In modern MMA we actually got Conor Khabib which is one of few super fights in MMA history that ever happened and hence it's the highest selling PPV ever.
 
Better? Jesus no. There are some legit fights for sure, but the whole package is stale and too impersonal now. It's been regressing for about 15 years now.
 
Nothing like the old days hey.... Chuck vs Wand. Fedor vs Brock. Anderson vs GSP. The only one giving us super fights back then was BJ but the dude is one of the most disrespected fighters on this site anyways so that can't really but what you guys love. In modern MMA we actually got Conor Khabib which is one of few super fights in MMA history that ever happened and hence it's the highest selling PPV ever.
True khabib Conor was great.


There are some lesser considered ones back then that i personally consider a super fight like big nog vs Tim sylvia and randy but hey its all objective.

I think we see less fights nowadays that the fans ask for.
 
The history of combat sports very much say otherwise.

No, they don't at all. Fans were and at O'Malley for saying he'd rather fight bums than killers, but there's an inherent incentive for any fighter to feel that way.
 
My point will always be.. The champ faces the next guy in line. Takes on all comers, until he loses, or retires.

Long term, this is absolutely the best way. Even if in the short run you sometimes miss out on a fight you want to see it is worth it. The way it should be. I feel like WME has been worse in this regard than Zuffa, and Zuffa wasn't blameless either.
 
My point is that they were already cranking out events nearly weekly BEFORE WME bought UFC. The sale was in July 2016. Here are the number of events by year. So it wasn't like, WME said to Dana, we need more events per year, they just kept it about the same.

2014 - 46
2015 - 41
2016 - 41
2017 - 39
2018 - 39
2019 - 42
2020 - 41
https://www.statista.com/statistics/681115/number-of-ultimate-fighting-championship-events/

So I wouldn't blame it on WME, if you want, blame it on Dana since he's been doing that since 2014.

But I do agree that short sighted match making is making the events a bit weaker in the WME era.
I do agree a lot of it was the UFC itself pre-WME. But keep in mind we aren't accounting for the Contender's series, which isn't really a distinct brand. Keep in mind that it won't show up in numbers but 2020 was an absolute grind since the UFC insisted on compressing its schedule into half a year, and that was under heavy pressure from WME (and also the powers that be at UFC too). And also that UFC cards have gotten longer in the past few years, usually they are now 14 or 15 fights where they used to be 10-12.

Below is number of fights annually for the UFC, 2020 was just insane if we account for the compressed schedule. That might explain a lot of the groaning from hardcores.

2014: 503
2015: 473
2016: 493
2017: 457
2018: 473
2019: 517
2020: 456
If you really believe the UFC is out of touch, vote with your wallet. While numbers are booming out of the roof they are doing something right (it's a business).
UFC is doing great with buys, but you aren't controlling for increased media exposure and free publicity from that. In other words, a 500k buy PPV from 2008 or something is probably equivalent to 750 or 800k these days.
 
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