Is Tony's BJJ Way Overratted?

[BluntForceTrama]

Just curious to hear some opinions

I think we've all seen him look less than stellar on the ground and this legendary guard game is elusive to say the least. He sometimes has this way of looking like a flopping fish at times

What say you sherdog?

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

i think Khabib would've beat the fuck out of him.

 

[fg1985bg]

He’s not the best, but he’s far from overrated in terms of grappling. His best strength to me is the fact that he doesn’t “accept” bottom position like most fighters do. It’s so annoying to me that fighters just stay in guard and are just content to be there with little to no offense or attempts at anything.

Tony stays extremely active and is still a threat from his back....or he use to be at least Olivera fight not withstanding.

 

[Phrozenspite]

yes. it's like condit and pettis. they hit some nice subs, but their bjj isn't good enough to stop/discourage people from grapplefucking them

 

[JustOnce]

Just curious to hear some opinions

I think we've all seen him look less than stellar on the ground and this legendary guard game is elusive to say the least. He sometimes has this way of looking like a flopping fish at times

What say you sherdog?

Pretty fucking stupid thing to say

 

[Megatronlee]

It’s about as good as it is

 

[Reach4theSky]

I think the way that Charles handled him skewed a lot of opinions. Tony has a good ground game, he just ran into someone who's way better..

Same thing would've happened if he faced Khabib...

 

[KID Yamamoto]

He's extremely offensive off his back and is one of the best scramblers ever at LW. The Olivera fight IMO showed a legit downgrade in his grappling abilites then before. Far more passive and was willing to play guard. Not to mention he was walking into reactive doubles all night.

 

[Otto!]

I think he has a solid ground game. Always active, always trying to make something happen.

 

[Luckyme]

Oliveira made Tony look like a white belt. Tony's had some nice submission finishes but they've often happened when his opponents were beaten down and gassed.

 

[TempleoftheDog]

Tony is one of the most overrated fighters in my time watching this sport. If not for an iron jaw, he’d already be in Bellator. That’s the way I see it. Screw his db fans, while we’re at it. They are a joke.

Do you remember them calling him the LW GOAT?

 

[MeatWagon06]

Have you seen what he does to his students??

SnapJitsu Bitch!

 

[BluntForceTrama]

It’s about as good as it is

Thanks for your opinion fuckface

 

[FIGHTING TALK]

On the one hand yes it is vastly overrated.
On the other, he possesses a style which makes submissions way more possible during scrambles.

So it depends if you want to focus on pure bjj, or likelihood of finishing a fight via submission.
The Fluffy Hernandez vs Rodolfo Veira fight for example, does the result mean Hernandez is better at bjj than Rodolfo? No. However in their fight Hernandez was able to submit Rodolfo because it became a gruelling fight where inch by inch technical Jiu Jitsu went out of the window.

 

[jeff7b9]

High risk high reward imo.

He plays a wild game and is able to get away with it because he has insane cardio and he is very good in scrambles and he has a solid wrestling base.

As we are talking about his BJJ in the context of MMA, his cardio and pace are crucial to the success of his BJJ. And like all aspects of Tony’s game, he is most effective when his opponents wilt from his pace/pressure. The flip side of that is that he is at highest risk before his opponents wilt from pressure, or in the nightmare scenario of his Charlie Olives fights, all night in the rare occasion where he encounters a guy who can stay in control of the fight and especially the positioning.

So Oliveira whooped his ass. And Khabib would have whooped his ass too. So? How many guys can do that? How many guys can do that and maintain it for 15-25 min?


The danger, or maybe more accurately, the most concerning danger for Tony is that one has to wonder if he can continue to play his game effectively with higher age and mileage, damage... I love, and admire and enjoy and appreciate the workhorse fighters. The swarmers, pressure fighters, that wear down opponents and ideally break them and finish them.

they say “power is the last thing to go” so logically the other attributes go before that. So how long can Tony win by breaking guys with pace? And if he can’t do that anymore, can he find other paths to victory?

Beneil Dariush is a good test for Tony at this point. A good durable and well rounded guy. Someone vintage Tony would have been pretty locked in to defeat, but also someone not quite so dangerous as to carry a high likelihood of injuring Tony.

May the best man win.

 

[MMAProfessional]

i think Khabib would've beat the fuck out of him.

I thought it was a shame that they never fought until Oliveira dominated him on the ground. Would have been great at the time but knowing what we know now that fight would have been disappointing.

 

[Bamboozled]

everything about Tony is overrated

dude got out grappled by a journeyman and had literally nothing for him.

 

[Garnet_StrongerThanYou]

I think he mostly submits people who are gassed or beat the hell up on the feet.

 

[MMAProfessional]

High risk high reward imo.

He plays a wild game and is able to get away with it because he has insane cardio and he is very good in scrambles and he has a solid wrestling base.

As we are talking about his BJJ in the context of MMA, his cardio and pace are crucial to the success of his BJJ. And like all aspects of Tony’s game, he is most effective when his opponents wilt from his pace/pressure.

Also people don't acknowledge the fact that most of his subs came from rocked fighters.

 

[moreorless87]

His grappling is similar to his standup IMHO in that its the relentless nature of it that made it effective.