Will striking take over in MMA?

[GoatArtemLobov]

Considering more and more mma fights take place on the feet at the elite level, we get to hear the narrative that "striking will take over, first it was bjj, then wrestling, now it's striking's turn".
Personally, I don't agree with that. I think striking is a way weaker form of fighting than grappling.
If we don't see that much grappling anymore, it's not because striking is as powerful, but because fighters work less on the grappling than they used too, so, from a technical standpoint, there aren't as gamed.
This could be because UFC is biased towards strikers, and because everyone wants to be the "exciting Ko artist" because the fans don't want to see grappling...
What are your thoughts on that?

 

[DanAndroid]

I forget who I was watching, but he said that striking is favored currently because it flashy and exciting, but the fact is the khabibs of the world still tool the best strikers.

 

[DS66]

I still think high-level wrestling rules. Guys like Khabib and Usman are dominant. But you're right in the fact that many divisions just don't seem to have elite wrestlers currently for whatever reason, so several strikers are champs. But it goes in waves. Generally I'll still take an elite wrestler with average striking over an elite striker with average wrestling.

 

[Judochopatemi]

I still think high-level wrestling rules. Guys like Khabib and Usman are dominant. But you're right in the fact that many divisions just don't seem to have elite wrestlers currently for whatever reason, so several strikers are champs. But it goes in waves. Generally I'll still take an elite wrestler with average striking over an elite striker with average wrestling.

Those are two people. The vaat majority have stand-up styles these days including guys who did grappling

 

[nefti]

Wrestle~box is a proven foruma

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Striking only rules as long as the elite strikers train hard and develop excellent TDD.

Adesanya is only as good as he is because he's hard to take down, if he didn't have good defensive wrestling, people would just rush him and take him down.

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

F

I forget who I was watching, but he said that striking is favored currently because it flashy and exciting, but the fact is the khabibs of the world still tool the best strikers.

Fitch said that a few days ago I think.
Agree with you, I'm a hobbyist/amateur who has done both (boxing and bjj), I feel like striking arts are weak as fuck compared to grappling arts unless you have freakish KO power.
And if you haven't that power, you can only jab and circle the cage for so long.
Of course, there is no comparison between a guy like myself an top competitors, but I don't know why striking would suddenly become super effective when the level is going up...

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

Striking only rules as long as the elite strikers train hard and develop excellent TDD.

Adesanya is only as good as he is because he's hard to take down, if he didn't have good defensive wrestling, people would just rush him and take him down.

True.
And I still think a supreme wrestler (there aren't anymore at MW) could take Adesanya down. Keeping him there long enough to finish him would be something else though.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

True.
And I still think a supreme wrestler (there aren't anymore at MW) could take Adesanya down. Keeping him there long enough to finish him would be something else though.

Depends, they'd need to be a supreme wrestler with good enough hands and movement to work their way inside without getting blasted on the way in. Someone a bit like prime Frankie Edgar maybe.

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

It's easy to stall a grappler by using lesser grappling, it's not possible to stall a striker by using worse striking. That's why good striking is so valuable once basic (1-2 years training) wrestling has been achieved by both parties. To avoid getting hurt by striking, you have to be the better striker.

Khabib, like Fedor, is an extreme outlier for his time. If you're the best at Sambo and also a great striker, this dynamic may not apply to you, but it does for everyone else. There's not nearly enough freaks like Khabib or Fedor to create a new training paradigm for the sport in general. If there were, that would be awesome.

 

[Tweak896]

I mean today's strikers know exactly the positions they can defend takedowns well. It's kind of like how BJJ defense evolved, if you train particular neutralizing positions, you can prevent much of a black belts offense. But the high level wrestlers seem to go above conventions, even still, you see Masvidal neutralize most of Usman's takedowns.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

No. And this

"striking will take over, first it was bjj, then wrestling, now it's striking's turn"​

narrative does not exist.

 

[shrdgr]

Yes, striking will take over because grappling is blatantly discouraged by the UFC and by its fans. That's why there are so many former wrestlers in the UFC who barely use their wrestling anymore and have probably lost their skills because of that. The UFC is now B-league kickboxing for the most part, with only a few guys like Usman, Blaydes, Khabib, and Khamzat showing us how it should really be done. If the UFC merged with ACA and let grapplers do their thing, I bet the ACA fighters would take over the rankings.

 

[13Seconds]

Those are two people. The vaat majority have stand-up styles these days including guys who did grappling

There was a time when Anderson, JDS, Aldo and Barao were champs at the same time. It’s not just "right now". It comes in waves.

 

[superpunch]

Considering more and more mma fights take place on the feet at the elite level, we get to hear the narrative that "striking will take over, first it was bjj, then wrestling, now it's striking's turn".
Personally, I don't agree with that. I think striking is a way weaker form of fighting than grappling.
If we don't see that much grappling anymore, it's not because striking is as powerful, but because fighters work less on the grappling than they used too, so, from a technical standpoint, there aren't as gamed.
This could be because UFC is biased towards strikers, and because everyone wants to be the "exciting Ko artist" because the fans don't want to see grappling...
What are your thoughts on that?

Fighters learned defense against subs, then BJJ became an afterthought. Fighters have recently learned defense against takedowns and scrambles, and now wrestling is an afterthought.

Fighters have learned good BJJ defense and good wrestling defense to nullify those styles. Striking defense still sucks. So strikers are filling in the gap.

We have world class grapplers like Yoel Romoero (Olympic silver, World gold) that can't even use their styles in the cage, defense is so good. Every fighter in the UFC is so good at defense that they can nullify grappling against Olympic level grappling.

We've never even seen a world class boxer seriously in the Octagon. Fighters can't even defend against mediocre strikers. There's a whole ton of defensive weakness to exploit in striking right now. That's why strikers are taking over.

Eventually, guys will get good defensive striking just like they got good defensive BJJ and good defensive wrestling. That's the next stage of the sport's evolution. That's going to take a long time. Until then, striking prowess will rule the sport.

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

It's easy to stall a grappler with lesser grappling, it's not possible to stall a striker with worse striking. That's why good striking is so valuable once basic (1-2 years training) wrestling has been achieved. To avoid getting hurt by striking, you have to be the better striker.

Khabib, like Fedor, is an extreme outlier for his time. If you're the best at Sambo and also a great striker, this dynamic may not apply to you, but it does for everyone else. There's not nearly enough freaks like Khabib or Fedor to create a new training paradigm for the sport in general. If there were, that would be awesome.

I'm not sure I got the transition between your first sentence and the second.
You were saying grappling had that aspect that striking doesn't have (the stalling aspect) and then you jumped on to "that's why striking is so valuable", so I don't understand.

 

[ImmigrantMentality]

I feel like its easier to learn takedown defense than it is striking defense which gives strikers the advantage. Then you also have the issue of the weak chin that can make you even more susceptible to a skilled striker. Grappling doesnt have that x factor, you either are skilled and capable enough to deal with the grappling or you are not

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

No. And this

"striking will take over, first it was bjj, then wrestling, now it's striking's turn"​

narrative does not exist.

There was actually an entire thread today talking about this but ok bro...

 

[Reyesnuthugr]

I'm not sure I got the transition between your first sentence and the second.
You were saying grappling had that aspect that striking doesn't have (the stalling aspect) and then you jumped on to "that's why striking is so valuable", so I don't understand.

For most cases, lower level grappling (1-2 years of training) can nullify higher level grappling (someone's lifelong art). Takedown defenses and drilled scrambles, getting back up drills, etc. For UFC level talent, it only takes 1-2 years to learn this.

Lower level striking can NOT nullify higher level striking. Even if the other striker is only slightly better, the asswhooping you'll get will be very lopsided in your opponent's favor. You can't just take 1-2 years striking and use it to stall another striker who has striking as his base.

That's the difference between the natures of grappling and striking. When you put them both together like in MMA, the better striker usually wins because the grappling aspect mostly cancels out even if there is a grappling skill disparity. This is not true for the very top sambo guys like Fedor and Khabib, but those guys are rare, plus they both have crazy good striking, anyway.

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

Fighters learned defense against subs, then BJJ became an afterthought. Fighters have recently learned defense against takedowns and scrambles, and now wrestling is an afterthought.

Fighters have learned good BJJ defense and good wrestling defense to nullify those styles. Striking defense still sucks. So strikers are filling in the gap.

We have world class grapplers like Yoel Romoero (Olympic silver, World gold) that can't even use their styles in the cage, defense is so good. Every fighter in the UFC is so good at defense that they can nullify grappling against Olympic level grappling.

We've never even seen a world class boxer seriously in the Octagon. Fighters can't even defend against mediocre strikers. There's a whole ton of defensive weakness to exploit in striking right now. That's why strikers are taking over.

Eventually, guys will get good defensive striking just like they got good defensive BJJ and good defensive wrestling. That's the next stage of the sport's evolution. That's going to take a long time. Until then, striking prowess will rule the sport.

I kind of agree with you (it's hard and energy taxing to take people down etc. etc.) but I still think very good wrestling rules in mma.
Romero just doesn't use it because he is old af and is a good enough striker.

But look at how far Askren has gone with non existent striking.
I highly doubt Canelo or Buakaw could have maid it that far and they are way superior boxer/muay thai boxers than Askren is a wrestler.