On the Frequency of Accidental Fouls

Mr Joyboy

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Dear Sherdog,

I've been watching through a lot of 2000-2008 era UFC, and I've noticed some things in regards to eye pokes and groin strikes.

1) Eye pokes were far, far, far less common in fights from this era. I admit I don't watch every fight nowadays, but it seems like there's an eye poke in every big fight I see, and people are always bringing up eye pokes that may have affected big fights on the forum. Likewise, referees are constantly admonishing fighters "watch those fingers", or "fingers up" in modern fights, while this never occurred during matches back then.

I theorize that it's a combination of fighters realizing they can get at least one free eye poke per fight without being penalized, and the effect of Jon Jones showing that using the threat of an eye poke is an effective way to control distance.

Additionally, jabbing may be more common now, and with more fighters thinking they know how to "flick the jab" with a relaxed hand instead of a proper closed fist, more loose fingers are going around the eyes. I feel like many fighters used more "fundamentals" in the old days, and as grapplers learned boxing they just always kept a closed fist when standing up.

2) Groin shots are also much more common. Here I think the explanation is simple; fighters are becoming more well rounded and therefore there's more leg kicks being thrown, naturally causing more nut shots.

BONUS QUESTION

I sort of always wondered why we see so few groin strikes from punches in MMA. I suppose body punches are less common in MMA than they are in boxing, but I still think it's odd that I can't think of a single example in MMA.

Inb4 Someone accuses me of saying fouls never happened in the old days. Of course they did, but seem to be significantly less common.

Love,
Mr Joyboy
 
Dear Sherdog,

I've been watching through a lot of 2000-2008 era UFC, and I've noticed some things in regards to eye pokes and groin strikes.

1) Eye pokes were far, far, far less common in fights from this era. I admit I don't watch every fight nowadays, but it seems like there's an eye poke in every big fight I see, and people are always bringing up eye pokes that may have affected big fights on the forum. Likewise, referees are constantly admonishing fighters "watch those fingers", or "fingers up" in modern fights, while this never occurred during matches back then.

I theorize that it's a combination of fighters realizing they can get at least one free eye poke per fight without being penalized, and the Jon Jones showing that using the threat of an eye poke is an effective way to control distance.

2) Groin shots are also much more common. Here I think the explanation is simple; fighters are becoming more well rounded and therefore there's more leg kicks being thrown, naturally causing more nut shots.

BONUS QUESTION

I sort of always wondered why we see so few groin strikes from punches in MMA. I suppose body punches are less common in MMA than they are in boxing, but I still think it's odd that I can't think of a single example in MMA.

Inb4 Someone accuses me of saying fouls never happened in the old days. Of course they did, but seem to be significantly less common.

Love,
Mr Joyboy
The nut shots the last month or so have been out of control. It’s almost bizarre how it went from maybe once an event to 5+ per event.
 
Solution:
Take points no matter if intentional or not.

I don't care if it was unintentional, the foul gives an advantage to one fighter and changes the fight dynamic. A taken point restores the balance. And it will force "foulers" to finish the fight if they want to win.
 
Yeah it’s been bad.

Jones proved cheaters do indeed win, and the example stuck.

Those wondering why so many fans got upset at Jones over the years, this last event with an illegal strike almost every fight shows what we knew would happen.
 
Yeah it’s been bad.

Jones proved cheaters do indeed win, and the example stuck.

Those wondering why so many fans got upset at Jones over the years, this last event with an illegal strike almost every fight shows what we knew would happen.
The problem is it becomes a game both ways. If you punish people too hard it becomes a game to fake out the ref into thinking the leg kick hit your balls, and it becomes like soccer where guys fling themselves across the field and scream in pain.
 
Solution:
Take points no matter if intentional or not.

I don't care if it was unintentional, the foul gives an advantage to one fighter and changes the fight dynamic. A taken point restores the balance. And it will force "foulers" to finish the fight if they want to win.
You could then walk into a fouling shot as a strategy to win the round.
 
You could then walk into a fouling shot as a strategy to win the round.
Yup, it turns into this shit
tenor.gif
 
Solution:
Take points no matter if intentional or not.

I don't care if it was unintentional, the foul gives an advantage to one fighter and changes the fight dynamic. A taken point restores the balance. And it will force "foulers" to finish the fight if they want to win.

This solution has a lot of appeal to me, but I think there are two big problems with it.

1) taking a point for each foul (there's often more than one), will have a huge impact on win-loss results, and as much as people bitch about people winning when they fight dirty, people would bitch even more about fighters getting wins on penalty points. The butthurt on the forum would fucking skyrocket.

2) Draws would be much more common, which isn't good for either the fans or the promotion.

As things are, 1 point is a gigantic penalty, and also the minimum available penalty. It might work in, say, a 30 point must system (30-27 being the standard instead of 10-9), where maybe a 1 or 2 point penalty would matter but not be a total game changer.
 
I actually feel that nut shots from leg kicks are less common these days. Fighters have gotten good at avoiding the inside leg kicks, and it's also a slower kick to throw, so attacking fighters have switched to the new MMA dim mak, the calf kick these days

The GOAT nut shot: 260 pounds of manbearpig kicking your nuts from a sprint. Chris Tuscherer was throwing up afterwards. He showed heart but really shouldn't have continued only to be kicked in the head.

nut.gif
 
Poke someone in the eye, lose the finger. Kick to the groin, lose the foot.

No more penalties in record time.
 
Poke someone in the eye, lose the finger. Kick to the groin, lose the foot.
I know you're joking, but for cage grabs that prevent takedowns, why don't they simply call TIME, put the defending fighter on his back, then restart the fight.

I'm talking Blagoy/Sakai on 05/30/2020.

--
 
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I actually feel that nut shots from leg kicks are less common these days. Fighters have gotten good at avoiding the inside leg kicks, and it's also a slower kick to throw, so attacking fighters have switched to the new MMA dim mak, the calf kick these days

The GOAT nut shot: 260 pounds of manbearpig kicking your nuts from a sprint. Chris Tuscherer was throwing up afterwards. He showed heart but really shouldn't have continued only to be kicked in the head.

nut.gif
This was an all-timer, poor Chris was like a beached whale puking in that bucket. In the Olympics they have privacy screens they put around mangled weightlifters so people don't get grossed out by the injuries. They should have the same thing on hand for atomic ball strikes.
 
You could then walk into a fouling shot as a strategy to win the round.
Well a penalty wouldn't win you the round, if you were already winning the round it gives you a 10-8 but if you were losing it draws the round, 9-9.

It seems like nowadays fighters are getting one free eye poke AND one free groin shot. If you get a warning the next accidental foul should be a point no matter the type.
 
IDK man. Chuck Liddell used to be an eye poking expert back in the day.
 
Dear Sherdog,

I've been watching through a lot of 2000-2008 era UFC, and I've noticed some things in regards to eye pokes and groin strikes.

1) Eye pokes were far, far, far less common in fights from this era. I admit I don't watch every fight nowadays, but it seems like there's an eye poke in every big fight I see, and people are always bringing up eye pokes that may have affected big fights on the forum. Likewise, referees are constantly admonishing fighters "watch those fingers", or "fingers up" in modern fights, while this never occurred during matches back then.

I theorize that it's a combination of fighters realizing they can get at least one free eye poke per fight without being penalized, and the effect of Jon Jones showing that using the threat of an eye poke is an effective way to control distance.

Additionally, jabbing may be more common now, and with more fighters thinking they know how to "flick the jab" with a relaxed hand instead of a proper closed fist, more loose fingers are going around the eyes. I feel like many fighters used more "fundamentals" in the old days, and as grapplers learned boxing they just always kept a closed fist when standing up.

2) Groin shots are also much more common. Here I think the explanation is simple; fighters are becoming more well rounded and therefore there's more leg kicks being thrown, naturally causing more nut shots.

BONUS QUESTION

I sort of always wondered why we see so few groin strikes from punches in MMA. I suppose body punches are less common in MMA than they are in boxing, but I still think it's odd that I can't think of a single example in MMA.

Inb4 Someone accuses me of saying fouls never happened in the old days. Of course they did, but seem to be significantly less common.

Love,
Mr Joyboy

Two major points that I see. You're correct about the closed fist. Most guys years ago came from some what of a boxing background which taught that even if you weren't throwing a punch you still kept the hand curled. The second point is that the leg kick has evolved. 10 years ago leg kicks targeted almost exclusively the outside of the leg. Now everybody is trying to throw inside leg kicks and is instead booting groins.
 
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