Physicall prime vs experience

[GOATtalks]

Fighters primes are so overrated on Sherdog. It is used as an excuse for anyone to defend their favourite fighters loses. Skill and experience are a lot more important than physical prime. Derek Brunson proved that once again.

Brunson was going into the fight 36 years old with 27 pro fights, 5 KO loses, 10 years as a pro and a lot of miles. A washed up fighter by Sherdog standards.

Everyone was predicting a prime, undefeated 22 year old Shahbazyan to take his head off.

We saw the opposite of that.

Skill> physical prime

 

[Hellowhosthat]

22 is pre-prime by any sensible metric, I would imagine.

 

[Mr.Maelstrom]

TRTtor bless.

When his wealth of old man knowledge combined with the test levels of a shredded 25 year old.... Luke's chin got its first crack, bisping lost an eye ffs.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

There’s not just one peak always either, fighters can have troughs and then come good again, Mark Hunt is one example of that.

 

[Frankie Baby!]

28-34 is a fighters best years mostly, then you have guy's like DC, and Yoel.

 

[The Chosen]

Shahbazyan is not in his prime lol. 28-33 is the sweet spot for a fighter’s prime, and after that the physical declines but the experience gets even better.

 

[The Chosen]

With guys like Jon Jones and Jose Aldo their prime was hit sooner than their 30s, they have way too many miles on them and people have figured out their game/caught up to their skill set. Shahbazyan will probably peak at 25-30 since he’s so young now.

 

[Cpt Migraine]

There’s not just one peak always either, fighters can have troughs and then come good again, Mark Hunt is one example of that.

This.. motivation, it being fun, personal success etc plays a huge roll..

Idiots tend to see fighters as some kind of playing card..

Chin 7/10
Grappling 5/10
Striking 6/10
Cardio 10/10

It's not that easy.. if a fighter is relevant for 10 years that guy has probably had a couple of primes and dips..

 

[sampuncher]

I don't think anyone thought Brunson was "washed up". Derek Brunson is just Derek Brunson, he'll win 2/3 then lose and repeat.


Also a difference between "washed up" and "inconsistent"

 

[superpunch]

This.. motivation, it being fun, personal success etc plays a huge roll..

Idiots tend to see fighters as some kind of playing card..

Chin 7/10
Grappling 5/10
Striking 6/10
Cardio 10/10

It's not that easy.. if a fighter is relevant for 10 years that guy has probably had a couple of primes and dips..

It's interesting because in team sports, as you as you "dip", you're replaced and your career is over. Unless you're like Michael Jordan or something. I wonder if most guys that "dip" would actually come back better than ever in their 30s if they didn't get immediately replaced.

 

[Stoic]

It's interesting because in team sports, as you as you "dip", you're replaced and your career is over. Unless you're like Michael Jordan or something. I wonder if most guys that "dip" would actually come back better than ever in their 30s if they didn't get immediately replaced.

Jordan retired at like 30 then came back and was clearly not as athletic/explosive as he was. The second threepeat which was 33-35 encompassed a lot less dunking/in the paint scoring and a lot more mid range jump shooting. Top GOAT's like Fedor, GSP and Jones clearly had lost a step around 32-ish either losing fights or winning controversially. I think the MMA community is confused about physical prime/peak the perfect blend of mind/body peak which is a short window because the sport is still young and there are large skill/talent gaps. Eventually the gaps will be a lot smaller and then it will be a lot more clear exactly what ages encompass the prime/peak both mentally and physically.

 

[TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle]

Late 20s - early 30s is generally where your athleticism is still there but you also have a lot of experience. Its not an unbreakable rule though, theres lots of different factors that can effect things.

 

[Frode Falch]

Actual prime is when the two meets.

 

[Th3Sav4ge]

everyone is different. some people clique early in life, some are later bloomers.

 

[Cylence]

Late 20s - early 30s is generally where your athleticism is still there but you also have a lot of experience. Its not an unbreakable rule though, theres lots of different factors that can effect things.

There we go. Came here to say something similar to this.

A good example of this is Nogueira. While he was still an extremely competent fighter at about 32 and was actually the UFC Interim Heavyweight Champion, the beatings he received for a decade or so deteriorated him quicker than than, say, someone like Brunson.

Another example of this would be Penn. While still a competent fighter around 2010-2012, the years of constantly letting himself balloon up in weight, not training, doing drugs, and drinking deteriorated him so badly that it was an uphill climb. His physical gifts were leaving him just as the sport was catching up to him.

Compare the above two to someone like Randy Couture or Bernard Hopkins who lived clean, always stayed in shape, and didn't make themselves a punching bag for most of their careers. They were able to achieve success far past the standard shelve-life of a top professional fighter.

I could list a million more examples of how the rule can be broken, but there's just so many. It just really depends on the fighters who step into the cage that night.

 

[Gamer007]

I don't think most people disagree with you if your just talking about physical prime which peaks in your early 20's, your usually never gonna jump higher or have more durability and agility than in your early 20's. Of course pro athletes start to take their dieting and training more seriously as they age, so you see them usually make strides in their physical strength and conditioning as the years go on.

But if you actually think Edmen is in his fighting prime, then you're very wrong. He's 5 years from his fighting prime assuming he has a normal career trajectory.

Physicality < Experience
Experience < Skill
Experience + Skill < Physicality + Skill

Skill and Experience shouldn't be lumped together, you could be really experienced with 30+ fights and not refine your skills at all. Skills also decline and improve throughout the average career, a 35 year old won't have that same explosive double leg he used to have, but his clinch game may be much better than his early career. Fighters in their late 20's and early 30's usually maintain a certain level of their old physical ability while also making big improvements in skill and experience, which is why an older fighters experience doesn't carry them very often, only if they are truly special fighters or are fighting young kids with minimal experience(18-22).

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

Jordan retired at like 30 then came back and was clearly not as athletic/explosive as he was. The second threepeat which was 33-35 encompassed a lot less dunking/in the paint scoring and a lot more mid range jump shooting. Top GOAT's like Fedor, GSP and Jones clearly had lost a step around 32-ish either losing fights or winning controversially. I think the MMA community is confused about physical prime/peak the perfect blend of mind/body peak which is a short window because the sport is still young and there are large skill/talent gaps. Eventually the gaps will be a lot smaller and then it will be a lot more clear exactly what ages encompass the prime/peak both mentally and physically.

Agreed. I'd add that the *majority* of careers in question were obviously pre-USADA (or were in foreign doping-allowed leagues), which dramatically alters our perspective on what an actual/"natural" prime is.

 

[Drugstore Cowboy]

22 is pre-prime by any sensible metric, I would imagine.

Not in muay thai and wrestling. There are shot kids at 22 in muay thai haha.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Not in muay thai and wrestling. There are shot kids at 22 in muay thai haha.

Yeah, that's true. I suppose that happens when you turn pro at 13 lol

 

[dabouv]

Fighters primes are so overrated on Sherdog. It is used as an excuse for anyone to defend their favourite fighters loses. Skill and experience are a lot more important than physical prime. Derek Brunson proved that once again.

Brunson was going into the fight 36 years old with 27 pro fights, 5 KO loses, 10 years as a pro and a lot of miles. A washed up fighter by Sherdog standards.

Everyone was predicting a prime, undefeated 22 year old Shahbazyan to take his head off.

We saw the opposite of that.

Skill> physical prime

Generally physical prime is more in the mid 20's. I'd say your best years for most would be 26-32. The drop of is slow at first and experience can easily overcome a minor decline but by the time an athlete in most sports is late 30's, its a fast slide. Grapplers can hang on longer than strikers and big guys do better than little guys as speed less of an issue. Really good supplements , the kind you won't find at your local grocery store, have changed this a bit.