So Holloway's Training Partner was a Gi stuffed with pillows and Perry's corner was his GF

[machidafan99]

are traditional training camp members and corner-men expensive dead weight?

Surely this changes the economics of a working, experienced fighter.

 

[Haj01]

Yes Brock Lesnar became champ by only using weights and his double leg.

Royce Gracie never trained just rolled right out of bed in his pyjamas as per Ken Shamrock and won the UFC tournament.

Sparring partners are overrated.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Perry is an outlier and he was fighting an overmatched Gall. Covid has changed a lot for some, but not for most. Just about every fight since this began has full corners. The Perry thing is an exception. As for Max, I don't even know if that's the truth.

 

[Martialbeef]

Fighters fight. It’s all extra.

 

[loisestrad]

I might be mistaken, but I don't think a "cornerman" is only there to be in the corner. I mean, the cornermen generally plays a huge part outside of the corner and in general preparation. That's why they're in the corner.

Now, when the fight is actually going down, I'm not sure the cornerman plays such a huge role that he (oftentimes) couldn't be replaced by anyone else (as in case Perry's girlfriend).

It's obviously not recommended, as the fighter could eventually benefit from gamechanging advice - but a lot of the time I have my doubts that fighters are even listening to the cornerman.

 

[MMAProfessional]

Perry is an outlier and he was fighting an overmatched Gall. Covid has changed a lot for some, but not for most. Just about every fight since this began has full corners. The Perry thing is an exception. As for Max, I don't even know if that's the truth.

He's also really dumb. He shot on Cowboy and went far from their gameplan. He was even training with Greg Jackson at the time right? They are well aware of how good he is on the ground so probably told him to avoid it at all costs. I think for Perry it doesn't matter because he doesn't listen anyways.

 

[AmericanMMA]

The Perry fight was a fight he couldn't have lost with or without a corner. It made no difference.

Max is about the get smashed.

Good corners are important and can make a great impact with a great game plan. I've never fought in mma, but I did wrestle and there were times in the moment I was doing things incorrectly, but could not figure out why. My coach would yell out good instructions and I would follow to succeed. It can be hard to identify what you are doing wrong in the moment without looking at tape. I can imagine this is the case with all combat sports.

 

[machidafan99]

Yes Brock Lesnar became champ by only using weights and his double leg.

Royce Gracie never trained just rolled right out of bed in his pyjamas as per Ken Shamrock and won the UFC tournament.

Sparring partners are overrated.

You missed the part about EXPERIENCED fighters. Fighters that already know how to fight and understand strategy.

 

[machidafan99]

The Perry fight was a fight he couldn't have lost with or without a corner. It made no difference.

Max is about the get smashed.

Good corners are important and can make a great impact with a great game plan. I've never fought in mma, but I did wrestle and there were times in the moment I was doing things incorrectly, but could not figure out why. My coach would yell out good instructions and I would follow to succeed. It can be hard to identify what you are doing wrong in the moment without looking at tape. I can imagine this is the case with all combat sports.

Would rather keep an extra 30% of the purse if you're smart and experienced.

Some people need more guidance, some not cerebral, I guess.

 

[fortheo]

He's also really dumb. He shot on Cowboy and went far from their gameplan. He was even training with Greg Jackson at the time right? They are well aware of how good he is on the ground so probably told him to avoid it at all costs. I think for Perry it doesn't matter because he doesn't listen anyways.

There was literally a scene from the locker rooms after his fight with Cerrone where one of Perry's corner man said "shit, I forgot to tell you that his ground game is sick".

 

[machidafan99]

Perry is an outlier and he was fighting an overmatched Gall. Covid has changed a lot for some, but not for most. Just about every fight since this began has full corners. The Perry thing is an exception. As for Max, I don't even know if that's the truth.

I can see both ways. Take Weidman's coaches & jabronies. They helped against Anderson (punch through his chest) and ruined him against Rockhold.

 

[superpunch]

Would rather keep an extra 30% of the purse if you're smart and experienced.

Some people need more guidance, not cerebral.

Coaches train fighters to be champs. They're not paying the coaches anything when they're making $4K/$4K on the regional circuits. Once they're experienced enough to actually pay their coaches, they're also experienced enough to train without coaches. But they never would have got there in the first place if the coaches asked for payment up front. Loyalty has to be a thing. Otherwise, gyms will have to start signing their newbie fighters to long term exclusive contracts in return for training like Thai gyms do. That's why you see so many Thai fighters with the last name of their gym. It would be like "Lyoto Americankickboxingacademy", or Jon "Bones" WinklejohnJackson, or Georges "Rush" St. Tristargymnasium.

 

[machidafan99]

There was literally a scene from the locker rooms after his fight with Cerrone where one of Perry's corner man said "shit, I forgot to tell you that his ground game is sick".

HAHAHAHA. Does he get a refund?

 

[Substance Abuse]

I can see both ways. Take Weidman's coaches & jabronies. They helped against Anderson (punch through his chest) and ruined him against Rockhold.

Weidman ruined himself against Rocksalt.

 

[machidafan99]

Coaches train fighters to be champs. They're not paying the coaches anything when they're making $4K/$4K on the regional circuits. Once they're experienced enough to actually pay their coaches, they're also experienced enough to train without coaches. But they never would have got there in the first place if the coaches asked for payment up front. Loyalty has to be a thing. Otherwise, gyms will have to start signing their newbie fighters to long term exclusive contracts in return for training like Thai gyms do. That's why you see so many Thai fighters with the last name of their gym. It would be like "Lyoto Americankickboxingacademy", or Jon "Bones" WinklejohnJackson, or Georges "Rush" St. Tristargymnasium.

Let me clarify. I"m not talking about journey men. We're talking about world famous fighters like Holloway and Perry who are so experienced they know more than 95% of coaches though Holloway his humble and would never say that.

Journey men are still learning how to be great pros.

 

[machidafan99]

Weidman ruined himself against Rocksalt.

Corner was so helpful by not throwing in the towel after many minutes of unrelenting beat down that ruined his future.

 

[kimocomplex]

the work has already been done
these guys have years of experience doing this, given the circumstances they can include/exclude some things

 

[superpunch]

Let me clarify. I"m not talking about journey men. We're talking about world famous fighters like Holloway and Perry who are so experienced they know more than 95% of coaches though Holloway his humble and would never say that.

Journey men are still learning how to be great pros.

And journey men don't make enough to pay their coaches enough to actually train them. Coaches train journeymen for peanuts with the expectation that once they actually make it, they'll make it back with the higher fees. They expect loyalty as a social contract. In the absence of loyalty as a social contract, loyalty will have to be legally contracted instead. If pro fighters start burning their coaches the minute that they're experienced enough to, coaches will have to make long term exclusive contracts a prerequisite of receiving training. That's what camps in Thailand have to do.

 

[Tweak896]

With how many fighters are dropping due to covid and training removed by it, it makes you think if history will look at this period as not an exact showcase of top talent.

I mean like its not like before where everyone can train how they want and may the best win. Better than nothing but fighters kind of have excuses for these Covid fights.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Corner was so helpful by not throwing in the towel after many minutes of unrelenting beat down that ruined his future.

I'm speaking more so to what got him to that point. He was controlling the fight and did some dumb shit.