I feel like most everyone respects his heart and willingness to challenge himself, but just on his actual career. Does he deserve more credit for fighting people much larger than him even though he ended up losing a lot rather than someone who stayed in one weight class but was more consistent? There's a contingent of mma fans who think his marquee wins against Rampage, Randleman, and Vitor were fixed, thoughts on that? Hell is his legacy as the man to end the mythology of the Gracies underrated compared to him fighting giants? What weight class would he be in if he fought today, and how would he do against current WW? Just general Sakuraba thread I guess.
I feel like most everyone respects his heart and willingness to challenge himself, but just on his actual career. Does he deserve more credit for fighting people much larger than him even though he ended up losing a lot rather than someone who stayed in one weight class but was more consistent? There's a contingent of mma fans who think his marquee wins against Rampage, Randleman, and Vitor were fixed, thoughts on that? Hell is his legacy as the man to end the mythology of the Gracies underrated compared to him fighting giants? What weight class would he be in if he fought today, and how would he do against current WW? Just general Sakuraba thread I guess.
No cause at that time everything was OW. While he fought in a UFC HW tournament and at LHW at the time OW was the norm. If a guy who was going to be at LHW, MW or even WW was going to win a title or be successful had to be against everyone. People only started being this or that weight classes when promotions adopted multiple belts. UFC split divisions first so when Sakuraba won that HW tournament the norm was still OW.
Just commenting on the perception there was something unusual about what he did. A year earlier all UFC tournaments were open to fighters of all weights.
Yes to the Gracie feat being overrated as well those guys were undefeated by design.
My thoughts
- very tought fighter, one of the toughest actually
- some good wins, but many losses
- they could have been fixes, but no proof for now
- it is your decision to fight bigger guys and yeah, it matters in my book, but if you lose to them, it is not an argument for your loss (not that he did that ever)
His win against Rampage definitely wasn't fixed; Rampage said the Yakuza offered him money to throw the fight but he declined and lost anyway.
The fact that he lasted 15 mins with Igor after a 90 minute fight with Royce is just insane.
His biggest mistake was fighting Wanderlei not just once, but three fucking times where he just got beat worse and worse each time. Wand damaged his chin and body to the point where he was never the same fighter again.
Sakuraba is one of the greatest of all time and my opinion is that his first fight with Royce Gracie is the greatest MMA fight of all time with rules that will never be used again
How is Sakuraba these days anyone know ? What's he doing with himself these days ? Is he healthy?
If there's anyone who has CTE in the game my moneys on Sak That Melvin shallacking immediately comes to mind
did Victor ever make the fix claim? He doesn't seem the type to be able to hold a secret or not throw someone uNder the bus
No cause at that time everything was OW. While he fought in a UFC HW tournament and at LHW at the time OW was the norm. If a guy who was going to be at LHW, MW or even WW was going to win a title or be successful had to be against everyone. People only started being this or that weight classes when promotions adopted multiple belts. UFC split divisions first so when Sakuraba won that HW tournament the norm was still OW.
Just commenting on the perception there was something unusual about what he did. A year earlier all UFC tournaments were open to fighters of all weights.
Yes to the Gracie feat being overrated as well those guys were undefeated by design.
I understand that it was the norm back then, but it's still impressive to fight people way bigger than you don't you think? Especially in this era of weight cutting. Not saying he deserves credit for losing to bigger men, but idk just that his feats kind of aged pretty well.
I can’t think of a single fight of his that was fixed.
Rampage claims that he was offered to take a dive, but never claimed that he accepted the offer. Belfort meanwhile blamed his loss on the broken hand, which was definitely a factor. However, we all know that Vitor never had any heart - that was the main reason why he looked awful.
Sakuraba cannot be appreciated by fans who weren’t around when he was at his best. They don’t understand the context, don’t really know who most of the opponents were or what their worth was at the time when they fought him.
I understand that it was the norm back then, but it's still impressive to fight people way bigger than you don't you think? Especially in this era of weight cutting. Not saying he deserves credit for losing to bigger men, but idk just that his feats kind of aged pretty well.
No, especially today cause LHW's and MW's are even really smaller than HW's frame wise just better athletes. But the point is other would be LHW's/MW's were at least as successful. Look at the Pancrase OW champs and the UFC tournament champs about half of them were LHW's(Guy Mezger, Kondo etc) or MW's when divisions became a thing. Royce Gracie would not have been a HW either.
Look at Hendo who won King of Kings an OW super GP and he clearly wasn't a HW. Babalu who later became a LHW gatekeeper got really deep into these tournaments as well. He made it to the final of the RINGS tournament(not king of kings)and lost to Fedor.
Feel Vovchanchyn who beat him gets overshadowed and Sakuraba's fame is cause he beat the gracies which was a consequence of whatever cultish thing they had going on in the 90s. Not that Sakuraba was bad or anything, very successful in early Pride. But early Pride's competition level was low(the nostaglia Pride people are commenting on the last few years, not the first few). Rampage's success in Pride doesn't match where he was in the UFC also. He was young.
Look at Hendo who won King of Kings an OW super GP and he clearly wasn't a HW. Babalu who later became a LHW gatekeeper got really deep into these tournaments as well. He made it to the final of the RINGS tournament(not king of kings)and lost to Fedor.
Feel Vovchanchyn who beat him gets overshadowed and Sakuraba's fame is cause he beat the gracies which was a consequence of whatever cultish thing they had going on in the 90s. Not that Sakuraba was bad or anything, very successful in early Pride. But early Pride's competition level was low(the nostaglia Pride people are commenting on the last few years, not the first few). Rampage's success in Pride doesn't match where he was in the UFC also. He was young.
My thoughts
- very tought fighter, one of the toughest actually
- some good wins, but many losses
- they could have been fixes, but no proof for now
- it is your decision to fight bigger guys and yeah, it matters in my book, but if you lose to them, it is not an argument for your loss (not that he did that ever)
His win against Rampage definitely wasn't fixed; Rampage said the Yakuza offered him money to throw the fight but he declined and lost anyway.
The fact that he lasted 15 mins with Igor after a 90 minute fight with Royce is just insane.
His biggest mistake was fighting Wanderlei not just once, but three fucking times where he just got beat worse and worse each time. Wand damaged his chin and body to the point where he was never the same fighter again.
"I remember my stomach feeling like I swallowed a brick," Jackson recalled in 2007. "I still, to this day, think that somebody poisoned my room service or something like that. I was happy that it was my biggest paycheck to date, but I know Pride brought me there to lose. They made me lose all this weight when Pride didn't even have weight classes. I knew there was no way I could win. But I knew I couldn't turn back and not fight. I said, 'I've got to go out there and put on the best show possible and do my best so I could at least make a name for myself and Pride would have me back.'
“The UFC treats me better than Pride. I don't know what their [PRIDE] problem was but they wouldn't promote me at all, they cheated me out of money from dolls and t-shirts, not paying me... when my contract was up and we were negotiating and I wanted more money and they were telling me ‘oh, but you're a nobody.' This was after I had fought in the Grand Prix and beat Igor Vovchanchyn.”
“Even after I went to that K-1 fight and represented them in K-1, they were mad I won that K-1 fight! Just stuff like that... Igor Vovchanchyn, I got two weeks notice [for the fight]. Ninja, two weeks notice. It was bad. The tournaments were fixed. They said they drew numbers from a hat. It was all set up for Wanderlei to win. It was really bad. Even in some fights they would stand you up when you were winning, different stuff like that.”
I feel like most everyone respects his heart and willingness to challenge himself, but just on his actual career. Does he deserve more credit for fighting people much larger than him even though he ended up losing a lot rather than someone who stayed in one weight class but was more consistent? There's a contingent of mma fans who think his marquee wins against Rampage, Randleman, and Vitor were fixed, thoughts on that? Hell is his legacy as the man to end the mythology of the Gracies underrated compared to him fighting giants? What weight class would he be in if he fought today, and how would he do against current WW? Just general Sakuraba thread I guess.
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