How did PRIDE champs fighting non-title bouts work?

[superpunch]

I'm looking at Fedor's record: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko#Mixed_martial_arts_record

He had 13 PRIDE fights at HW after he won the PRIDE HW championship belt. However, only 3 of those fights counted as title defenses. If he had lost one of those other 10 fights, would he still have been the champion?

 

[Rvd Slmr]

If he had lost one of those other 10 fights, would he still have been the champion?

Yes, Wanderlei lost a middleweight fight against Arona during the 2005 GP, and didn't lose his middleweight title.

 

[GrantB13]

Being eligible to lose the belt if you lose without being eligible to defend it if you won would be a shit deal.

 

[superpunch]

Yes, Wanderlei lost a middleweight fight against Arona during the 2005 GP, and didn't lose his middleweight title.

So what the hell do PRIDE belts and records even mean anything? So if we're being real then Wanderlei actually lost his belt and wasn't really the champion, and Fedor fought straight bums like that 0-2 pro wrestler and that huge fat black guy? ?

 

[Rvd Slmr]

So what the hell do PRIDE belts and records even mean anything? So if we're being real then Wanderlei actually lost his belt and wasn't really the champion, and Fedor fought straight bums like that 0-2 pro wrestler and that huge fat black guy? ?

Non title fights are non title fights, I think it's pretty straightforward. It's just a different system that pushed top fighters to fight more often, just like fighting a bunch of cans between legit opponents did.

 

[AmericanMMA]

Yes, Wanderlei lost a middleweight fight against Arona during the 2005 GP, and didn't lose his middleweight title.

Thats the thread.

Pride did that alot. The champions were active, but did not defend the titles often.

 

[Hank30]

So what the hell do PRIDE belts and records even mean anything? So if we're being real then Wanderlei actually lost his belt and wasn't really the champion, and Fedor fought straight bums like that 0-2 pro wrestler and that huge fat black guy? ?

How are you confused by non title fights? You a fucking idiot?

Fedor fought legit contenders around twice every 3 years. Just like UFC champs do. Unlike UFC champs he would also have warm up fights in between. It sold ppv, kept talent that wanted to compete often in the ring, and if they ever lost a non title match against someone then the next fight would be a title fight against that same person. Its a really simple thing to understand but it looks like you are trying to make a stink over nothing or are too dumb for the internet.

 

[BFoe]

So what the hell do PRIDE belts and records even mean anything? So if we're being real then Wanderlei actually lost his belt and wasn't really the champion, and Fedor fought straight bums like that 0-2 pro wrestler and that huge fat black guy? ?

But Fedor also fought Coleman, Randleman, Nog, Cro Cop, and Hunt during that time. I do agree that it’s stupid that all of these fights weren’t defenses, and I’ve had people use the number of title defenses as an argument against Fedor being GOAT. To me, the level of competition is a valid debate, but the number of title defenses isn’t, because he won all of those fights. It wouldn’t have mattered if they were title defenses or not.

 

[TheChance]

I'm looking at Fedor's record: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko#Mixed_martial_arts_record

He had 13 PRIDE fights at HW after he won the PRIDE HW championship belt. However, only 3 of those fights counted as title defenses. If he had lost one of those other 10 fights, would he still have been the champion?

Yes it was a NON-TITLE fight. I fail to see how the concept is hard to understand

 

[PalmStrike]

How are you confused by non title fights? You a fucking idiot?

Fedor fought legit contenders around twice every 3 years. Just like UFC champs do. Unlike UFC champs he would also have warm up fights in between. It sold ppv, kept talent that wanted to compete often in the ring, and if they ever lost a non title match against someone then the next fight would be a title fight against that same person. Its a really simple thing to understand but it looks like you are trying to make a stink over nothing or are too dumb for the internet.

Wish I could "like" this post 100 times!

 

[Andre Xiong]

I'm looking at Fedor's record: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko#Mixed_martial_arts_record

He had 13 PRIDE fights at HW after he won the PRIDE HW championship belt. However, only 3 of those fights counted as title defenses. If he had lost one of those other 10 fights, would he still have been the champion?

Pride also did a lot of cross promotion fights so those also made sense to be non-title but they had stipulations like if a nonPride fighter beat a Pride champion, the rematch would be for the title. I recall that being the case in Kondo (Pancrase champ) v Wanderlei but it was a curb stomping so Kondo didn’t get to exercise his stipulation

 

[Aluminati]

Marcus Aurelio beat Gomi in a nontitle fight, and lost the rematch. It has happened before.

 

[HHJ]

But Fedor also fought Coleman, Randleman, Nog, Cro Cop, and Hunt during that time. I do agree that it’s stupid that all of these fights weren’t defenses, and I’ve had people use the number of title defenses as an argument against Fedor being GOAT. To me, the level of competition is a valid debate, but the number of title defenses isn’t, because he won all of those fights. It wouldn’t have mattered if they were title defenses or not.

He fought many of these in a tournament which is every 2 months in a period of 6 months. Twice in one night to win in the finals. Its probably unfair to expect someone to defend their belt that many times,so its incentives for champions to enter these tournaments. They still have value regardless of wether they win or not.

Fedor,lord and master of everything,never lost any bouts in pride so it didnt really matter with him.

 

[Literally Bricked]

How are you confused by non title fights? You a fucking idiot?

Fedor fought legit contenders around twice every 3 years. Just like UFC champs do. Unlike UFC champs he would also have warm up fights in between. It sold ppv, kept talent that wanted to compete often in the ring, and if they ever lost a non title match against someone then the next fight would be a title fight against that same person. Its a really simple thing to understand but it looks like you are trying to make a stink over nothing or are too dumb for the internet.

 

[HHJ]

Marcus Aurelio beat Gomi in a nontitle fight, and lost the rematch. It has happened before.

Gomi is a special case. He lost two non title fights (aurelio and diaz) outside of the tourney format. I suspect it's because diaz was prob not contracted for any more fights,but really I dont know. One would think that rematch would have been huge money. Guess they were protecting gomi

 

[Tugboat]

Seems like I remember they would fight, but it wasn’t for the title. Something like that.

 

[eiyuu]

I'm looking at Fedor's record: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko#Mixed_martial_arts_record

He had 13 PRIDE fights at HW after he won the PRIDE HW championship belt. However, only 3 of those fights counted as title defenses. If he had lost one of those other 10 fights, would he still have been the champion?

Yes, when Takanori Gomi was LW Champ, he lost a non-title fight to Marcus Aurelio, but still retained the title.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see that this was posted already.

 

[Goatenstein]

Stupid non-title fights and lack of weight classes were PRIDE's two biggest problems. RIZIN recently made the same idiotic mistake with Horiguchi's non-title fight. It was a sad reminder of the idiotic Gomi vs Aurelio non-title fight back when MMA didn't suck.

 

[Dorkman]

So what the hell do PRIDE belts and records even mean anything? So if we're being real then Wanderlei actually lost his belt and wasn't really the champion, and Fedor fought straight bums like that 0-2 pro wrestler and that huge fat black guy? ?

For what it's worth beating Wanderlei in the non title tournament bout did earn Arona an actual title match. So it's not like he got nothing for it. But yeah non title fights are kind of trash. I loved the tournaments, understood why tournament bouts were non title. But it never really sat well when a champion clearly lost and retained their title of champion.

 

[DayV]

PRIDE had 2 formal titles. Grand Prix is also world title where lineal champion enters tournament on same terms as all other participants and shares risks equaly. The new search, new proving and race for the best fighter
begins. If divisional champion loses in Grand Prix, like Wand in 2005, altough he still keeps his divisional belt, he is not the best fighter at that time and context, winner of Grand Prix is.
Wanderlei lost to Arona in Grand Prix 2005, he stilll had divisional belt at his house, but he lost his no. #1 place, and the winner of Grand Prix Shogun overtook him as the new no. #1.

If Fedor lost for example to Randleman in 2004 Grand Prix, and if Nogueira won the Grand Prix, Fedor would still be divisional champion, but Nogueira would be the best and no. #1 fighter in the world at that moment.
When Grand Prix was beeing held, the same value and focus was given to it, as to the divisional title.

In general, fighting more often is harder, it wears the body and mind more, and you take more risk to be supprised, caught and defeated by lesser fighter.