The evolution of MMA

[Aaaay1hotsauce]

TL;DR: I think the sport has changed drastically. What do you think?

Last night there was a digression in a thread with some saying the sport hasn’t changed at all in the past 15 years, while others saying it’s changed drastically. I thought a dedicated thread could be interesting. Here are my thoughts: the sport has changed drastically and will continue to change, likely beyond any of our lifetimes, although the rate of change will decrease and eventually plateau (see: boxing). What are some changes we’ve seen already?

1. BJJ - BJJ is basically unrecognizable from just a decade ago. Guards are now far more aggressive (think Tony) and we’re also just beginning to see the new wave of leg lock specialists enter (think Hall and Tonnon). Will be interesting to see where these guys go. Last, everyone is proficient in BJJ (barring a few mammoths at HW).

2. Inefficacy of Grappling - this is going to bother some people. It obviously could change, and I think it very well might change (see above), but we’re seeing grappling (wrestling and BJJ) becoming less and less effective. Guys have figured out how to get up. The days of being able to just grind out a fight with GNP are largely over.

3. Cage specific fighting - the counter to number 2 that I’m sure many of you are thinking of is khabib. He’s came up with a cage specific grappling style that is insanely effective. The first to design his game for the cage? Possibly.

4. The efficacy of striking - we’re seeing more and more that striking is the dominant art (at least given the rule set and for the time being. Please, don’t get your panties in a bunch. I’m a BJJ guy myself). Guys are using their wrestling background to stand up and strike (see Gaethje, [woodley, Usman, Colby against Maia]). Strikers are learning they don’t have to be demian maia on the ground or yoel in standup grappling, they just have to be able to get up (see Izzy).

I think that’s all I got. What do you think?

 

[YourBoss]

You will probably see new techniques, but you wont see fighters getting much better from now on. It would take a 100 years to be close to perfection in every disciplin of mma, but a fighter only has 20 years to get it right, so time is always the limiting factor.

 

[Aaaay1hotsauce]

You will probably see new techniques, but you wont see fighters getting much better from now on. It would take a 100 years to be close to perfection in every disciplin of mma, but a fighter only has 20 years to get it right, so time is always the limiting factor.

I agree with this. I think the “expert in everything” myth is simply a myth. Maybe Bones has gotten close.

 

[thobra]

We still have quite one dimensional guys in the top 5, even as champs.

I doubt it has evolved much. Look at the fight between the baddest grappler/striker 15 years ago: Crocop/Fedor, And compare it To DC-Stipes embarassing slugfest. (The socalled no 1 HWs of this time).

BJ was a world champ grappler with great tdd And very good boxing. I dont see anyone evolved much past that.

 

[cmw43]

The guys from 10 years ago would still be 50-50 with the best guys today.

Do you believe 2009 GSP, Anderson and Cain would lost to Usman, Izzy and Stipe?

43 year old Anderson had a close fight with Izzy, make him 10 years younger and you're in for a serious fight.

 

[2004 account]

How many waves of evolution have there been is the truly interesting question.

I think there have been 4

 

[NinjaSkillZ]

Bitches started catfighting

 

[Aaaay1hotsauce]

How many waves of evolution have there been is the truly interesting question.

I think there have been 4

I’d say about 3

 

[Franklin U.]

MMA has hit mainstream and I cant believe I'm saying this but the way its top promotion (ufc) runs its business, I dont see their success of a sustainable nature .
4-5 years ago- if someone wouldve said this, I would ve lol-ed.
I'm not laughing.

 

[Aaaay1hotsauce]

The guys from 10 years ago would still be 50-50 with the best guys today.

Do you believe 2009 GSP, Anderson and Cain would lost to Usman, Izzy and Stipe?

43 year old Anderson had a close fight with Izzy, make him 10 years younger and you're in for a serious fight.

Fair point. It’s hard to say because the first two we’re beyond their time. They were sort of trailblazers for the sport. I think GSP maybe loses to Usman (but could def beat him), Andy beats Izzy, Stipe beats Cain.

 

[Aaaay1hotsauce]

MMA has hit mainstream and I cant believe I'm saying this but the way its top promotion (ufc) runs its business, I dont see their success of a sustainable nature .
4-5 years ago- if someone wouldve said this, I would ve lol-ed.
I'm not laughing.

Eh, MMA is too awesome to go away. It could shrink and UFC could die but I couldn’t see the sport going away, assuming the world doesn’t end or there isn’t some cataclysmic event that changes the world forever.

 

[superpunch]

The guys from 10 years ago would still be 50-50 with the best guys today.

Do you believe 2009 GSP, Anderson and Cain would lost to Usman, Izzy and Stipe?

43 year old Anderson had a close fight with Izzy, make him 10 years younger and you're in for a serious fight.

The evolution of the sport is that today's best guys are just as good or better as guys 10 years ago but.. under USADA.

Take those guys and put them under USADA and you'll have sea level Cain in 2009. Take today's best guys and put them in 2009 and they'll look superhuman.

 

[Franklin U.]

Eh, MMA is too awesome to go away. It could shrink and UFC could die but I couldn’t see the sport going away, assuming the world doesn’t end or there isn’t some cataclysmic event that changes the world forever.

I'm not saying that. Its 2020 and it's not run like other major sports......and that SHOULD be the case. Business ( at this point) should automatically build off business and should be able to lay back and watch the process. It's all about greed. I'm not talking the death of the sport.

 

[Exemplar]

MMA has hit mainstream and I cant believe I'm saying this but the way its top promotion (ufc) runs its business, I dont see their success of a sustainable nature .
4-5 years ago- if someone wouldve said this, I would ve lol-ed.
I'm not laughing.

UFC is dying...

<{CMPALM}>

 

[RNC555]

TL;DR: I think the sport has changed drastically. What do you think?

Last night there was a digression in a thread with some saying the sport hasn’t changed at all in the past 15 years, while others saying it’s changed drastically. I thought a dedicated thread could be interesting. Here are my thoughts: the sport has changed drastically and will continue to change, likely beyond any of our lifetimes, although the rate of change will decrease and eventually plateau (see: boxing). What are some changes we’ve seen already?

1. BJJ - BJJ is basically unrecognizable from just a decade ago. Guards are now far more aggressive (think Tony) and we’re also just beginning to see the new wave of leg lock specialists enter (think Hall and Tonnon). Will be interesting to see where these guys go. Last, everyone is proficient in BJJ (barring a few mammoths at HW).

2. Inefficacy of Grappling - this is going to bother some people. It obviously could change, and I think it very well might change (see above), but we’re seeing grappling (wrestling and BJJ) becoming less and less effective. Guys have figured out how to get up. The days of being able to just grind out a fight with GNP are largely over.

3. Cage specific fighting - the counter to number 2 that I’m sure many of you are thinking of is khabib. He’s came up with a cage specific grappling style that is insanely effective. The first to design his game for the cage? Possibly.

4. The efficacy of striking - we’re seeing more and more that striking is the dominant art (at least given the rule set and for the time being. Please, don’t get your panties in a bunch. I’m a BJJ guy myself). Guys are using their wrestling background to stand up and strike (see Gaethje, [woodley, Usman, Colby against Maia]). Strikers are learning they don’t have to be demian maia on the ground or yoel in standup grappling, they just have to be able to get up (see Izzy).

I think that’s all I got. What do you think?

I think youre fairly stupid tbh.

1- Usman/Colby mostly fight on the ground. Striking is nowhere near the dominant art. Wrestling is.
Every guy you mentioned in the striking is dominant argument is striking due to his wrestling not his striking.

2- Heck even DDS squad is moving back into back attacks and RNCs and away from leg locks atm. Gordon Ryan last ADCC is an example of that.

There will not be a new wave of leg lock specialists. Leg locks dont work and especially not in MMA. Sure you can sub some ppl with leg locks in MMA, but they will mostly be bums. Youre not doing that in high level competition.

3- Wrestling/grappling inefficacy? Are you blind? The most dominant fighters in the 2 most talent stacked divisions are wrestle/grapplers.. Khabib/Usman/Colby.

4- Strikers lose to wrestle/grapplers 9 times of 10 to this day. Nothing changed.

 

[Franklin U.]

UFC is dying...

<{CMPALM}>

I'll tell you what's not good. This isnt 2005 and its not the WEC ......yet the current 155 division is their crown jewel class at the moment.

 

[1pedestrian]

Generally speaking they are more well rounded.

Heavyweight seems to be the one division that hasn't evolved as much as the others.

 

[Aaaay1hotsauce]

I think youre fairly stupid tbh.

1- Usman/Colby mostly fight on the ground. Striking is nowhere near the dominant art. Wrestling is.
Every guy you mentioned in the striking is dominant argument is striking due to his wrestling not his striking.

2- Heck even DDS squad is moving back into back attacks and RNCs and away from leg locks atm. Gordon Ryan last ADCC is an example of that.

There will not be a new wave of leg lock specialists. Leg locks dont work and especially not in MMA. Sure you can sub some ppl with leg locks in MMA, but they will mostly be bums. Youre not doing that in high level competition.

3- Wrestling/grappling inefficacy? Are you blind? The most dominant fighters in the 2 most talent stacked divisions are wrestle/grapplers.. Khabib/Usman/Colby.

4- Strikers lose to wrestle/grapplers 9 times of 10 to this day. Nothing changed.

Rude, but expected. You’re a khabib fanboy and can’t deal with someone being somewhat critical of his fighting style (even tho I actually applauded him and gave him his own bullet point).

1. No, they don’t. Watch them fight. Compare them to Matt Hughes

2. DDS is on another planet. Ryan’s backtakes are incredible, but that’s largely due to heavy pressure as people are avoiding the leg lock game. See how that works? Also, lol at leglocks not working in mma. That’s probably why people are literally refusing to fight Ryan Hall, right? I think you’re out to lunch on that one.

3. I spoke to khabib’s success. Again, I think he’s part of the evolution of the sport. Also, top at WW are extremely effective strikers. Wrestlefucking, by and large (with the exception of khabib and I think that’s because he’s adapted his game) doesn’t work amongst elite fighters. Look at what just happened Gillespie. FYI - you’re not going to meet a bigger wrestling/grappling homer than me. I’m just calling it as I see it. The point is we’re seeing the limits of wrestling. People have figured out the best approach isn’t to out wrestle a wrestler but to not wrestle a wrestler. Getting up is way easier than taking down and keeping someone down. Let’s even take your little fav, khabib. Conor was able to stuff alll of his TDs in rd 3. If he didn’t gas, where does that fight go? He did and he lost, but just something to think about. I could go on and on about this and if you wanna have a private convo, I’m open to it, but I’ll stop here.

4. Like Izzy lost to Whitaker and Gastellum? Like Holloway lost to Edgar and Ortega? Look at what wonderboy’s been able to do. He’s old and won’t get a title, but imo, he at least took the first match against Woodley. That’s a D1 all American, btw. The striking revolution is still in its infancy. I think it’s very possible an elite boxer comes over, actually trains wrestling/grappling defense, and changes the sport drastically. I think it’s pretty obvious the direction the game is going, if you pay attention and are objective. Which you’re obviously not because you’re young and stupid enough to be a fanboy and allow emotion to dictate evaluations.

 

[Jpenwell14]

TL;DR: I think the sport has changed drastically. What do you think?

Last night there was a digression in a thread with some saying the sport hasn’t changed at all in the past 15 years, while others saying it’s changed drastically. I thought a dedicated thread could be interesting. Here are my thoughts: the sport has changed drastically and will continue to change, likely beyond any of our lifetimes, although the rate of change will decrease and eventually plateau (see: boxing). What are some changes we’ve seen already?

1. BJJ - BJJ is basically unrecognizable from just a decade ago. Guards are now far more aggressive (think Tony) and we’re also just beginning to see the new wave of leg lock specialists enter (think Hall and Tonnon). Will be interesting to see where these guys go. Last, everyone is proficient in BJJ (barring a few mammoths at HW).

2. Inefficacy of Grappling - this is going to bother some people. It obviously could change, and I think it very well might change (see above), but we’re seeing grappling (wrestling and BJJ) becoming less and less effective. Guys have figured out how to get up. The days of being able to just grind out a fight with GNP are largely over.

3. Cage specific fighting - the counter to number 2 that I’m sure many of you are thinking of is khabib. He’s came up with a cage specific grappling style that is insanely effective. The first to design his game for the cage? Possibly.

4. The efficacy of striking - we’re seeing more and more that striking is the dominant art (at least given the rule set and for the time being. Please, don’t get your panties in a bunch. I’m a BJJ guy myself). Guys are using their wrestling background to stand up and strike (see Gaethje, [woodley, Usman, Colby against Maia]). Strikers are learning they don’t have to be demian maia on the ground or yoel in standup grappling, they just have to be able to get up (see Izzy).

I think that’s all I got. What do you think?

People on here aren't going to listen to what you have to say. They are just going to regurgitate the same crap over and over. Sorry. I realize you are trying to have a discussion.

Imo the fight game is a long way from being fully evolved and the changes in the technical aspects are my favorite part of the game

 

[Aaaay1hotsauce]

People on here aren't going to listen to what you have to say. They are just going to regurgitate the same crap over and over. Sorry. I realize you are trying to have a discussion.

Imo the fight game is a long way from being fully evolved and the changes in the technical aspects are my favorite part of the game

Yea, but I figured I’d get a few decent responses, like yours.

Agreed on not being fully evolved.