Why only BJJ is still expected to succeed by itself in MMA?

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bigpunch

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99% of MMA fighters train BJJ nowadays but when a BJJ specialist loses people act like we haven't known that you have to be complete in MMA since forever in order to be at the top.

When pure wrestlers/strikers lose in a bad fashion no one goes "wrestling/striking is overrated" so why act like it's news that incomplete BJJ fighters are losing and act like BJJ is useless because of that?
 
bigpunch said:
99% of MMA fighters train BJJ nowadays but when a BJJ specialist loses people act like we haven't known that you have to be complete in MMA since forever in order to be at the top.

When pure wrestlers/strikers lose in a bad fashion no one goes "wrestling/striking is overrated" so why act like it's news that incomplete BJJ fighters are losing and act like BJJ is useless because of that?
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I think theres a mentality among BJJ guys sometimes that BJJ is all you need. After all, it won ufc 1 right?

Hence why fans point out that it's not all you need.
 
bjj is too defensive

if it evolves it will include some wierd striking
 
because people are idiots
 
bigpunch said:
99% of MMA fighters train BJJ nowadays but when a BJJ specialist loses people act like we haven't known that you have to be complete in MMA since forever in order to be at the top.

When pure wrestlers/strikers lose in a bad fashion no one goes "wrestling/striking is overrated" so why act like it's news that incomplete BJJ fighters are losing and act like BJJ is useless because of that?
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People just defecate on Kron because he's Gracie.
They forget that it was his 6th fight - against former top 5 fighter, who started fighting professionally even before Kron started to GRAPPLE professionally
 
I agree with Death Stroke. It's a backlash to a (perceived or real) egotistical perspective from BJJ fanatics, and Gracies especially.

This site is all about the backlash. Someone says something outrageous, and 5 others commit to doing everything they can to insult that someone, and never let them forget it. What you're seeing is just an extension of that more generic sherdog childishness.

You're seeing a massive uptick this week because of a Kron loss. Again, so typical sherdog it's a cliche.

TLDR: snark is the antithesis of wisdom.
 
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Because Sherdog is 90% fucking retards.
 
No other martial art has ever carried itself as being "all you really need" like BJJ. At least in the modern and semi-modern eras post-UFC 1.

The importance of cross-training has been obvious to any serious and unbiased person for a very long time, but there are still some true believers who feel otherwise.

It's still pretty silly though. BJJ is important now as a protection against easy defeats (against someone who has some BJJ knowledge), not as a mechanism to win fights in isolation (for the most part anyway, exceptions exist).
 
Fighters nowadays extensively train stand up, clinch fighting, no gi grappling, and spar using everything. Even if the individual fighter considers themselves a “BJJ specialist” I think it’s a very outdated way of viewing fighters. I just view it as “this guy has really good grappling skills”. We still see interesting transitions, gnp, and submissions all the time.

BJJ specialists like Royce Gracie are absolutely a thing of the past.

Guys who have really good grappling abilities, so much so it outshines their standup/clinch fighting will be around forever, I think.
 
What will be sad is if, in twenty yeara from now, people are still doing the same.

MMA rules are extremely unlikely to change, whereas since the UFC inception, they have evolved and become refined.

That has negated the way people fight, what their foundation is and how they train.

Imagine they brought back headbutts and did away with time. A very fit grappler suddenly has different options.

It is what it is.
 
Because it still does work. I dont know if this is referance to Kron Gracie or what but he just got on a major card with 5 fights and before that finished a ufc vet in one round. Not everyone wins the belt but hes having success
 
Kvothe_the_kingkiller said:
I agree with Death Stroke. It's a backlash to a (perceived or real) egotistical perspective from BJJ fanatics, and Gracies especially.

This site is all about the backlash. Someone says something outrageous, and 5 others commit to doing everything they can to insult that someone, and never let them forget it. What you're seeing is just an extension of that more generic sherdog childishness.

You're seeing a massive uptick this week because of a Kron loss. Again, so typical sherdog it's a cliche.

TLDR: snark is the antithesis of wisdom.
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From what I understand some of the gracies (like Rickson for example) are old fashion even in BJJ itself
 
bigpunch said:
From what I understand some of the gracies (like Rickson for example) are old fashion even in BJJ itself
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Yes. Rickson especially still adheres to an old school view that a) sport bjj is shite, b) bjj is defensive in nature, and c) bjj was never designed for time limits and offense.

It was designed to defend yourself in the street, take no damage, and eventually find an opening that allows you to finish the fight.

He also has an entire worldview, diet, philosophy, breathing technique, etc all tied into this. Passing guard is only one teeny tiny aspect of this broader worldview.

But, shit evolved like it does, and he's a (well respected) dinosaur. Even his kid just spent 13 out of 15 minutes attacking and losing - the absolute antithesis of what Rickson spent his life preaching.

It's hard to be black or white in a grey world.

But let's remember, there are hundreds of Gracies. Every time one of them says something we disagree with, only the biggest asshole would then denigrate them all. These boards are full of those assholes.
 
The thing most people overlook on these boards is that guys like Cub Swanson and Jorge Masvidal have been grappling for 15+ years and could go to plenty of grappling tournaments and do great.
 
Kvothe_the_kingkiller said:
Yes. Rickson especially still adheres to an old school view that a) sport bjj is shite, b) bjj is defensive in nature, and c) bjj was never designed for time limits and offense.

It was designed to defend yourself in the street, take no damage, and eventually find an opening that allows you to finish the fight.

He also has an entire worldview, diet, philosophy, breathing technique, etc all tied into this. Passing guard is only one teeny tiny aspect of this broader worldview.

But, shit evolved like it does, and he's a (well respected) dinosaur. Even his kid just spent 13 out of 15 minutes attacking and losing - the absolute antithesis of what Rickson spent his life preaching.

It's hard to be black or white in a grey world.

But let's remember, there are hundreds of Gracies. Every time one of them says something we disagree with, only the biggest asshole would then denigrate them all. These boards are full of those assholes.
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Renzo Gracie seems to be very open minded from what I've seen. For example, in this video he is explaining something and he makes sure to credit Danaher for a detail:
 
beastman said:
The thing most people overlook on these boards is that guys like Cub Swanson and Jorge Masvidal have been grappling for 15+ years and could go to plenty of grappling tournaments and do great.
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Yeah, this bothers me a lot. "he should've gone train with sakuraba" was some of the stuff I read like Cub isn't a black belt in BJJ
 
Because BJJ is the only MA that you can actually FACTUALLY (besides Judo and Sambo of course... welll not the only one I guess...) do ok by itself.
tldr THE BEST MARTIAL ART EVAAAAHHHHH I will find my way out.
 
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