Would BJJ still be effective in MMA with OG rules?

[M.A.G.A.]

Let's say the rules were still like UFC 1, no biting, no eye gouging, kick to the balls still legal and bare knuckle fighting with no rounds and no time limit

Also gi allowed as well as wrestling shoes

Elbows to the back of the head, no problem

Would BJJ sill be the most effective art?

 

[Fenn]

Not 'THE' as it was, as just because the rules have changed the fighters would still be FAR more well rounded athletes, if I've understood you correctly

 

[VVarhead]

You mean like at UFC 1, where a BJJ guy dominated everyone else and made them realize that without knowledge of BJJ you can not win a fight?

You should watch some footage of Cops using BJJ to restrain suspects or BJJ use in street fights. It's not as effective without good wrestling but still pretty damn effective. Of course nowadays everyone has BJJ skills so BJJ is not as effective anymore, but do you see the paradox here?

BJJ is only not as effective now as it was then because everyone knows BJJ now.
Which just further confirms how essential BJJ is.

 

[OneManGang]

BJJ is the most effective art if none of the other has ever cross trained. With a gi to hold on to, its effectiveness is increased dramatically

 

[vanillaisis]

You mean like at UFC 1, where a BJJ guy dominated everyone else and made them realize that without knowledge of BJJ you can not win a fight?

You should watch some footage of Cops using BJJ to restrain suspects or BJJ use in street fights. It's not as effective without good wrestling but still pretty damn effective. Of course nowadays everyone has BJJ skills so BJJ is not as effective anymore, but do you see the paradox here?

BJJ is only not as effective now as it was then because everyone knows BJJ now.

It wouldn't have been as effective then either if the other fighters were the best of the best in their arts. Karelin, RJJ, etc would have killed Royce.

 

[VVarhead]

It wouldn't have been as effective then either if the other fighters were the best of the best in their arts. Karelin, RJJ, etc would have killed Royce.

Nope, because nobody even knew how to defend a basic guillotine or RNC.
Maybe he would've gotten caught, but does that really prove the ineffectiveness of BJJ? I don't think so.

 

[vanillaisis]

Nope, because nobody even knew how to defend a basic guillotine or RNC.

Karelin could have just powered out of anything Royce put him in. RJJ wouldn't have let him even come close enough.

 

[Genisys]

It wouldn't have been as effective then either if the other fighters were the best of the best in their arts. Karelin, RJJ, etc would have killed Royce.

Pure speculation. No way to prove this theory.

 

[VVarhead]

Karelin could have just powered out of anything Royce put him in. RJJ wouldn't have let him even come close enough.

If you think you can power out of a locked in guillotine or RNC with back control then you don't understand the very basic concept of BJJ.
A guy twice his size would have trouble even powering out of a Kimura which relies on strength more than chokes do. It's just the way these techniques are.

A 115 lbs girl subbed @PrideJitZoo, dude. I'm sure he tried to power out of it.

 

[vanillaisis]

If you think you can power out of a locked in guillotine then you don't understand the very basic concept of BJJ.

You've never seen Karelin obviously.

 

[VVarhead]

You've never seen Karelin obviously.

It's a fantasy match-up. Of course Royce couldn't outpower an olympic wrestler literally 3 times his size, 6'2 and roided to the gills lol. He still could have caught him in a RNC or triangle or whatever because nobody knew what the fuck that was and if it's locked in your strength doesn't matter anymore and fades very quickly (3 seconds max).
So because of that BJJ is overrated?

 

[boladiQup]

You've never seen Karelin obviously.

dumb

 

[vanillaisis]

It's a fantasy match-up. Of course Royce couldn't outpower an olympic wrestler literally 3 times his size, 6'2 and roided to the gills lol. He still could have caught him in a RNC or triangle or whatever because nobody knew what the fuck that was and if it's locked in your strength doesn't matter anymore and fades very quickly (3 seconds max).
So because of that BJJ is overrated?

The point was the early UFC's didn't feature the best of the best in their respective arts. Royce beat up some scrubs and because of that BJJ is God?

 

[VVarhead]

Royce beat up some scrubs and because of that BJJ is God?

BJJ is still essential to this day so your argument is flawed. There is not a single MMA fighter without BJJ knowledge.
How do you explain that? I'm not even saying BJJ is superior to all, it's just essential like running is to soccer.

 

[vanillaisis]

BJJ is still essential to this day so your argument is flawed. There is not a single MMA fighter without BJJ knowledge.

So is other martial arts so are you sure it's my logic that's flawed? BJJ is a legit art but it's not "special" in any way.

 

[VVarhead]

So is other martial arts so are you sure it's my logic that's flawed? BJJ is a legit art but it's not "special" in any way.

I'm not sure you get my point. I'm not saying BJJ is special or superior at all. I said it's essential. Same as some striking knowledge or some wrestling knowledge is essential in MMA. But not the entirety of striking and not the entirety of wrestling is essential, but the entirety of BJJ is essential and you NEED to know the defense for every submission you encounter, and if you don't you'd immediately learn it after getting caught by that sub.

TS was asking if BJJ would still be as effective as it is with different rules and the answer for me is yes, because every fighter would still have to know BJJ no matter the ruleset. Of course the BJJ would look different or maybe even be less utilized, but does that mean it's less essential or effective? I don't think so. Because a guy with no BJJ would still get subbed under every ruleset imaginable.

 

[GBJohn]

If I understand the original question, TS is wondering if BJJ would be more or less useful in modern MMA if the original rule set was still in use. In my opinion, it would be no more or less effective than under the Unified Rules. Regardless of rules, BJJ is still pretty ineffective when the opponent has decent sub defense, or if the fight stays on the feet. It’s still awesome against an underprepared opponent. I don’t think any of that changes with a change in rules unless you start fights on the ground.

 

[vanillaisis]

I'm not sure you get my point. I'm not saying BJJ is special or superior at all. I said it's essential. Same as some striking knowledge or some wrestling knowledge is essential in MMA. But not the entirety of striking and not the entirety of wrestling is essential, but the entirety of BJJ is essential and you NEED to know the defense for every submission you encounter.

TS was asking if BJJ would still be as effective as it is with different rules and the answer for me is yes, because every fighter would still have to know BJJ no matter the ruleset. Of course the BJJ would look different or maybe even be less utilized, but does that mean it's less essential or effective? I don't think so. Because a guy with no BJJ would still get subbed under every ruleset imaginable.

I'm going to disagree. Not because BJJ isn't essential but because by now other fighters would have evolved into using strategies to negate BJJ using strikes that are now illegal. Soccer kicks, knees to grounded opponents, ball shots (lol), etc.

 

[Kirra]

It would be more effective in a fight with no gloves (can't punch as hard and gloves make submissions harder to get) and no stand ups between rounds. Khabib would have been even more terrifying in a UFC 1 style match.

 

[j18lee]

BJJ is still essential to this day so your argument is flawed. There is not a single MMA fighter without BJJ knowledge.
How do you explain that? I'm not even saying BJJ is superior to all, it's just essential like running is to soccer.

The greatest goalies in the world gives two fucks about running in soccer. You can be a specialist in soccer and MMA and still be great.

Just being a dumbass/smartass pointing out a flaw in your analogy.