Should Fighters' Legacies Suffer for Continuing to Fight Past their Prime? (Civil discussion)

legkicktko

legkicktko

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Think of guys like Aldo, Anderson Silva, or Fedor. We saw them in their prime, and we saw them regress. With Georges, it was on a lesser extent because he looked bad against Hendricks and then was smart enough to disappear and focus on his health (good move).

That said, imagine Anderson's legacy if he retired after the second Chael fight, or after the Bonnar fight. He would have no losses in the UFC, no drug tests failures, and still the longest title defense outside of mighty mouse fighting guys with no wiki page. It would be very difficult to not consider Anderson the greatest of all time in that scenario.

But this isn't a pro anderson thread. What if Aldo retired after beating Lamas? He wouldn't be the GOAT, but his legacy would be the stuff of absolute legends. If Fedor retired after beating Brett Rogers, he would undoubtedly be the greatest heavyweight of all time and possibly the greatest fighter ever.

However, since we see these guys stick around passed their prime and lose fights, it seems like with most fans that it removes them from the GOAT discussion. I have nothing but love and respect for Georges St Pierre, he is top 2 no question. That said, when people compare him to Anderson and Fedor and dismiss them due to their losses, it's like damn man, I don't necessarily agree with the logic. You can definitely say that in your optinion GSP is the GOAT and there is nothing wrong with that opinion. But you can't cite their losses as the reason like that makes any sense. They are still here fighting. They are still taking risks, still fighting top flight competition. George disappeared (which is the smart, correct move) as soon as he regressed and then came back for a cherrypicked matchup against the weakest champ in recent memory who he had already fucked up in practice. You can't really compare those two things.

I for one, do not hold losses against the body of work that guys accomplished in their prime. It is clear that these guys are old and weathered but that doesn't discount how great they were in their prime.
 
I think guys like Fedor Aldo Silva GSP have all set their legacies in stone.

You can't lose your accomplishments because you're still fighting beyond your prime
 
Losing is losing.

L's always count when talking about greats.
Been like that for the past 100yrs+ in boxing

Marciano's HW record still discussed as one of the greatest accomplishment ever.


It's the same thing in MMA.
 
A civil discussion on Sherdog? Good luck.

It's down to each person tbh. I'll usually just draw a line in the sand and say that's that and caveat it all. Like for example BJ, I've basically tried to erase from my mind everything after the 3rd Matt Hughes fight.
 
Yup. Just as they do before their prime
 
Foppa21 said:
A civil discussion on Sherdog? Good luck.

It's down to each person tbh. I'll usually just draw a line in the sand and say that's that and caveat it all. Like for example BJ, I've basically tried to erase from my mind everything after the 3rd Matt Hughes fight.
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Damm how did I forget that example. Its true.

I think people fail to realize if Jon Jones fights another 12 years straight he's going to get fucked up a lot.
 
Some of the greatest boxers have 4 and 5 losses and are still considered great. Most of those losses likely happened towards the end of their primes. Still all time greats. Losses happen.
 
legkicktko said:
Think of guys like Aldo, Anderson Silva, or Fedor. We saw them in their prime, and we saw them regress. With Georges, it was on a lesser extent because he looked bad against Hendricks and then was smart enough to disappear and focus on his health (good move).

That said, imagine Anderson's legacy if he retired after the second Chael fight, or after the Bonnar fight. He would have no losses in the UFC, no drug tests failures, and still the longest title defense outside of mighty mouse fighting guys with no wiki page. It would be very difficult to not consider Anderson the greatest of all time in that scenario.

But this isn't a pro anderson thread. What if Aldo retired after beating Lamas? He wouldn't be the GOAT, but his legacy would be the stuff of absolute legends. If Fedor retired after beating Brett Rogers, he would undoubtedly be the greatest heavyweight of all time and possibly the greatest fighter ever.

However, since we see these guys stick around passed their prime and lose fights, it seems like with most fans that it removes them from the GOAT discussion. I have nothing but love and respect for Georges St Pierre, he is top 2 no question. That said, when people compare him to Anderson and Fedor and dismiss them due to their losses, it's like damn man, I don't necessarily agree with the logic. You can definitely say that in your optinion GSP is the GOAT and there is nothing wrong with that opinion. But you can't cite their losses as the reason like that makes any sense. They are still here fighting. They are still taking risks, still fighting top flight competition. George disappeared (which is the smart, correct move) as soon as he regressed and then came back for a cherrypicked matchup against the weakest champ in recent memory who he had already fucked up in practice. You can't really compare those two things.

I for one, do not hold losses against the body of work that guys accomplished in their prime. It is clear that these guys are old and weathered but that doesn't discount how great they were in their prime.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't but it does
Case in point RJJ
 
Only if you are a moron who can't understand that those guys use their bodies to compete and once their bodies have aged and or suffered too much damage they can't perform in the same level
 
Civil discussion? Good luck with these potential G.E.D. owners
 
Why encourage a fighter who is past their prime to continue to compete at the highest level in a combat sport? Seems selfish.
 
Surprised no one has mentioned BJ yet. BJ was amazing in his prime. He didn't care what weight class he fought at. How often do you see a thread on Sherdog asking what was so great about BJ?
 
This is a really good topic, but I'm only interested in discussing it in a non-civil manner.

I generally think of a normal distribution (prime at the peak), and value fights the degree to which the fight is removed from a fighter's prime (so very early and very late fights receive almost no weight, but fights in and around prime receive tons).

That's not perfect, but a good rule of thumb and rough cut.

Edit: Bitches.
 
Of course, it matters. You're as good as your last fight + all the other fights.
 
Fighting too far past your prime can hurt your legacy. People, whether fair or not, will count end of career losses against you. Look at BJ Penn, or Roy Jones Jr for ex. Had he'd retired at the end of his prime when he only had one loss, he'd easily be considered the p4p Goat.

Guys like GSP and Mayweather did it right. Fight the best guys while you're at your best, then take the smart fights at the end of your career so your legacy will stay intact.
 
Championstuff said:
Some of the greatest boxers have 4 and 5 losses and are still considered great. Most of those losses likely happened towards the end of their primes. Still all time greats. Losses happen.
Click to expand...

Most need the money or the spotlight. Some view it as a "I think I still got it and I want to make sure. If I don't, it'll be a passing of the torch"

If GSP stays away (which I think he will), it'll probably cement his legacy as his greatest achievement... Be in the 1% that actually walks away at the right time and stays away
 
Foppa21 said:
Most need the money or the spotlight. Some view it as a "I think I still got it and I want to make sure. If I don't, it'll be a passing of the torch"

If GSP stays away (which I think he will), it'll probably cement his legacy as his greatest achievement... Be in the 1% that actually walks away at the right time and stays away
Click to expand...
It is a solid move on his part. I wish more guys made that move, but I also don't want to penalize them for continuing to take risks and fight.

Cormier is in that position now. He's injured, old af, but still on top relatively speaking (outside of two Jones fights). If he retires right now, he will be one of the greatest fighters of all time, easily top 5. If he fights Lesnar and Ngannu and gets smoked, it won't look as good. He's 40, any second now he's going to get starched badly
 
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