31 killed in attack in China's Xinjiang region

[IceAndFire**]

My fear is that it will lead to Chinese government and public to think that the near genocidal policy of Mao was more effective than dialogue, integration and reconciliation at keeping the peace.

EXACTLY! Committing terrorism is only going to give the PRC government an excuse to crack down even harder than they've previously done.

Acts of terrorism will not win you allies from the rest of the world. The world will side with the victims, not the perpetrators. Seeing as how China is already too important as a world economic player to be shunned, having the world back them up on this issue is going to have some dire consequences for the Uighurs.

Even the US has officially condemned this attack and is backing China on this.

Like I said, these people are asking for a genocide.

 

[Orgasmo]

I think we are more or less in agreement. The one thing I would quibble about is the relevance of "it was worse under Mao". Sure it was. But since then there was a period of tolerance. It is the retreat from that tolerance that has Uighers' jimmies especially rustled.

Its relevance to today's situation can't be underestimated. Beijing and Han Chinese will likely think that being more tolerant after 1980's have failed them. This would be especially true for the general public in China, where they are less aware of increased control in the region in recent years. Any easing on control of the region at this point now would be seen as appeasing the Uighurs, which Beijing won't risk public anger to do so.

However, one group that would benefit from this would be radical Islamic elements. They are not too concerned with plight of the Uighurs or the harshness of Chinese response. They may actually want China to crack down hard, in order to gain more recruits for their global jihad. It would give them more power and support base. It's the Joe Schmoes from Uighur and Han that have absolutely nothing to gain but everything to lose.

 

[crazyjames1233]

Whoa...

China won't be as reluctant and caring of "human rights" and "civil liberties" when dealing with this.

Ya that attack is horrible. That being said I would NOT want to be a Muslim in China right now...

 

[Scrody]

Christ.

 

[Orgasmo]

Large number of heavily armed police are moving into the region. Looks like there's going to be a massive security crackdown. Being a Uighur in Xinjiang is going to suck balls in the next little while.

 

[Supereem]

I wonder if the idiots in this thread know anything about the situation they're commenting on?

-The Xingjiang was predominantly Uigher but due to mass immigration they now make up ~40% (Their homeland has been stolen)
-Their language and culture in under attack, it is illegal for men to keep beards and women to wear headscarves (Seems pretty disrespectful to tell the NATIVES of a region to change their customs), also they use a different language, Mandarin is becoming more common place (Press #2 for Spanish)
-The Han are now the political power in the region also (Imagine Philadelphia with no black cops or something)

And another reminder, this is CHINA you're defending, it's pretty hard to get info from areas they don't want you to, no the most "free" place in the world

If the same thing happened to white Americans any "terrorist" attack would be labelled as guerilla hero militias fighting for FREEDOM with Bryan Carter leading the charge on a giant thunderbird with a rocket launcher.

 

[En Sabah Nur]

That brand of fanaticism is to be respected, not in the good way but in the opponent way.

Their actions do not warrant respect by any interpretation of the word or any try-hard pseudo-intellectual community college Art of War manipulation of the word.

 

[Funkasaurus]

Also, there was a period of relative ease on policies against Uighurs after Mao's death. Large numbers of mosques and religious institutions were built, and Uighur language was once against allowed in public institutions. These were not possible during Mao's era. I doubt the current efforts to erase Uighur language and culture are more severe than they had been prior to 1980's, yet the attacks are growing in numbers. My fear is that it will lead to Chinese government and public to think that the near genocidal policy of Mao was more effective than dialogue, integration and reconciliation at keeping the peace.

Here's where our disagreement comes

You think the Uighers are the aggressors (terrorism)

But the reality is that it's the Han who are the aggressors
Should the Uighers just sit back, have their culture eradicated and become even further marginalised in their homeland?

 

[Orgasmo]

Here's where our disagreement comes

You think the Uighers are the aggressors (terrorism)

But the reality is that it's the Han who are the aggressors
Should the Uighers just sit back, have their culture eradicated and become even further marginalised in their homeland?

I certainly do not think Uighers are aggressors, so do not put words in my mouth. I simply stated that resorting to terrorism will not gain any sympathy for their cause. The region is also home to a large number of Kazakhs, Mongols and Tajiks, so to say it's only the homeland of Uighurs is also a marginalization of other smaller ethnic groups that have settled there for centuries. Attacking a market full of civilians is a despicable act no matter your justification, as with all acts of terrorism.

 

[KOQ24]

I wonder if the idiots in this thread know anything about the situation they're commenting on?

-The Xingjiang was predominantly Uigher but due to mass immigration they now make up ~40% (Their homeland has been stolen)
-Their language and culture in under attack, it is illegal for men to keep beards and women to wear headscarves (Seems pretty disrespectful to tell the NATIVES of a region to change their customs), also they use a different language, Mandarin is becoming more common place (Press #2 for Spanish)
-The Han are now the political power in the region also (Imagine Philadelphia with no black cops or something)

And another reminder, this is CHINA you're defending, it's pretty hard to get info from areas they don't want you to, no the most "free" place in the world

you wont get any sympathy for terror acts.
thats the difference between the uighurs and the tibetians.
the basques and the catholics in northern ireland were in the same boat,people sympathize with their cause but not with their actions

 

[lapollarecords]

you wont get any sympathy for terror acts.
thats the difference between the uighurs and the tibetians.
the basques and the catholics in northern ireland were in the same boat,people sympathize with their cause but not with their actions

that is correct. that is why ceasing all armed actions was the right move and should have been done long ago.

 

[bloosteak]

China's Minorities Get Huge Affirmative-Action Benefits http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970826&slug=2556773

Nevertheless, Chinese-style affirmative action is comprehensive and so far-reaching that America's similar policies appear trifling by comparison:

-- There are free elementary, middle and high-school-level boarding schools and special college-preparatory classes for minority children.

-- Minority children can get into a university with exam scores 20 to 30 points below the minimum score for Han children.

-- A separate network of segregated universities exists only for minority students.

-- Though most Han in urban areas are limited to one child per family, minority families can have two, and in rural areas many are legally allowed three. In practice, many minority families simply have as many children as they want.

-- No-interest loans are offered for small minority businesses.

-- Businesses are officially encouraged to hire minorities.

-- A comprehensive, bilingual-education program aims at helping minorities learn Chinese. Meanwhile, scholars are creating alphabets for minority languages that had no writing systems to help ensure that these languages do not die.

The issue is that Uighurs are not competitive at business so they end up poor. It's a cultural issue with no solution. Yes, China does need the resources and historically those regions have been under Chinese control.

 

[ZroC]

Funny how easy it is for countries to enact martial law these days. It took the Tienanmen square protests for the Chinese to do it before. In the US they can declare martial law if a bomb goes off in a bin.

 

[surgeyou1]

Too many shitty human beings in the world

 

[Zankou]

Funny how easy it is for countries to enact martial law these days. It took the Tienanmen square protests for the Chinese to do it before. In the US they can declare martial law if a bomb goes off in a bin.

That's not martial law. Martial law is a suspension of civil courts in favor of military tribunals. It's not some made-up rhetorical term, even though you will hear right-wingers talking about 'martial law' as if it was.

 

[InternetHero]

China's Minorities Get Huge Affirmative-Action Benefits http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19970826&slug=2556773



The issue is that Uighurs are not competitive at business so they end up poor. It's a cultural issue with no solution. Yes, China does need the resources and historically those regions have been under Chinese control.

Yeah, I traveled there in 2008, the year before the anti-Han race riots.

Not only does the Chinese government poor tons of money into what would be an absolute shit hole of sand without it, the talk of disfranchising Uighurs altogether is very overblown.

 

[Orgasmo]

Yeah, I traveled there in 2008, the year before the anti-Han race riots.

Not only does the Chinese government poor tons of money into what would be an absolute shit hole of sand without it, the talk of disfranchising Uighurs altogether is very overblown.

What were you doing there? That place doesn't seem like your average tourist destination.

 

[InternetHero]

What were you doing there? That place doesn't seem like your average tourist destination.

University research.

We went to Urumqi, Turpan, the "Flaming Mountains" (LOL), and Heavenly Lake in all of about 50 hours.

It is a remarkable place but I never want to see it again.

It feels like visiting the surface of the moon in places and in 08 you could feel the hostility everywhere to the Han or anyone who looked at all East Asian-ish but not Uyghur.

Also, worst truck stop bathroom in the entire world... put it this way, I had to spend five minutes cleaning my shoes before I could get back on the bus.

 

[Orgasmo]

University research.

We went to Urumqi, Turpan, the "Flaming Mountains" (LOL), and Heavenly Lake in all of about 50 hours.

It is a remarkable place but I never want to see it again.

It feels like visiting the surface of the moon in places and in 08 you could feel the hostility everywhere to the Han or anyone who looked at all East Asian-ish but not Uyghur.

Also, worst truck stop bathroom in the entire world... put it this way, I had to spend five minutes cleaning my shoes before I could get back on the bus.

That place has always been dry and a semi-desert. It's also one of the poorest region in China, so I'm not surprised that it was unpleasant. Out of curiosity, how did you find the Uighurs? Most mainland Chinese I've brought up the topic with regard them as questionable thieves, sort of like how Europeans think of the Gypsies.

 

[InternetHero]

That place has always been dry and a semi-desert. It's also one of the poorest region in China, so I'm not surprised that it was unpleasant. Out of curiosity, how did you find the Uighurs? Most mainland Chinese I've brought up the topic with regard them as questionable thieves, sort of like how Europeans think of the Gypsies.

Uihgurs are ok if they can tell you are foreign and happy to sell you things. They were really, really aggressively rude to the Han with us, even when the Han were being nice to them. Though, my opinion is limited from the short time there.

Outside of the high mountains it is really, really arid. The Canyonlands in Utah is the Garden of Eden in comparison once you get out on the Turfan Depression.

If the Ughyurs did start a country it would be incredibly backwards and 4th worldish without Chinese dollars to prop it up and develop the resources.

Whoever else came in to get the interests would just fuck them over 3x worse in my opinion, and without all the modernization offered by the Chinese.