30 cal ballistic comparison

[Chesten_Hesten]

About to test some 30cal loads tomorrow, to dial in a new Scope.

Always had good luck with this free program:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj_simp-5.1.cgi

Just bought a First Focal Plane 4-20X Mildot scope.

personally I'm more familiar with MOA, doesn't really matter, I'm only using the mildots as holdover points.

3.47 MOA = 1 Mil. (can round up to 3.5 moa per mil)

Scope has 4 mildots.

My Standard 30'06 load is: 175grn Sierra matchking .505 BC @ 2950fps. (chrono'd)

Using the JBM program I get a scale out to 600 yards like this:

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
200 -0.0 -0.0 2.4 1.2 2583.9 2.269 2594.0 0.217 38.2 18.3
250 -2.4 -0.9 3.9 1.5 2496.3 2.192 2421.0 0.276 48.6 18.6
300 -6.2 -2.0 5.7 1.8 2410.3 2.116 2257.1 0.338 59.4 18.9
350 -11.6 -3.2 7.9 2.2 2326.0 2.042 2101.9 0.401 70.6 19.2
400 -18.5 -4.4 10.5 2.5 2243.3 1.970 1955.2 0.467 82.1 19.6
450 -27.1 -5.8 13.6 2.9 2162.3 1.899 1816.5 0.535 94.1 20.0
500 -37.6 -7.2 17.0 3.3 2082.9 1.829 1685.6 0.605 106.5 20.3
550 -50.1 -8.7 21.0 3.6 2005.3 1.761 1562.3 0.679 119.5 20.7
600 -64.8 -10.3 25.5 4.1 1929.5 1.694 1446.5 0.755 132.9 21.1

Little off center, but notice the drop at 600 yards says 10.3 MOA worth.

It's important when you do a calculation off a program like this to "true it" to the real world.

To true this scale you would need to Start with a 200 yard zero'd, rifle. Dial up 10.3 moa, shoot it at a real 600 yards distance and see if the zero from the program matches.

If it doesn't, you need to record the real-world dope, and go play with the inputs on the program till they match the real dope at 600. After that the closer stuff is usually lined up.

Depending on the time of year, sometimes my rifle matches the above scale exactly, other times it's 1/2 moa off. Clearly better than just a guess, though.

Note the Ft/lbs of energy at 600, 1446-lbs. Pretty good smack-down.

Dividing the 10.3MOA by 3.47 (3.47moa= 1mil) gives 2.96 so basically 3 mildots holdover for 600 yards.

Pretty good load, recoil not as bad as a 300 win mag, but certainly more than a 308, (most store bought 308 ammo with a 175grn bullet is like 2700fps.)

Tomorrow I wanna try a lighter alternative load using 150-155grn bullets.

58grns of N160 is what I use to get the 175s at 2950, so with the lighter bullets I'm going with 59grns.

Haven't chrono'd but I did a chart guessing 3090fps as the speed for 150grn Nosler Ballistic tip:

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
200 -0.0 -0.0 2.3 1.1 2707.9 2.378 2441.8 0.207 36.5 17.4
250 -2.2 -0.8 3.7 1.4 2617.3 2.298 2281.1 0.264 46.4 17.7
300 -5.6 -1.8 5.4 1.7 2528.4 2.220 2128.9 0.322 56.7 18.0
350 -10.4 -2.8 7.5 2.1 2441.3 2.144 1984.7 0.383 67.3 18.4
400 -16.6 -4.0 10.0 2.4 2355.9 2.069 1848.3 0.445 78.3 18.7
450 -24.4 -5.2 12.8 2.7 2272.1 1.995 1719.2 0.510 89.7 19.0
500 -33.9 -6.5 16.1 3.1 2190.0 1.923 1597.2 0.577 101.6 19.4
550 -45.2 -7.8 19.9 3.5 2109.6 1.852 1482.0 0.647 113.9 19.8
600 -58.4 -9.3 24.1 3.8 2030.9 1.783 1373.6 0.719 126.6 20.2

here's another using a 155grn Sierra matchking, (palma)

Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
200 -0.0 -0.0 2.3 1.1 2715.9 2.385 2538.2 0.207 36.5 17.4
250 -2.1 -0.8 3.6 1.4 2621.8 2.302 2365.4 0.263 46.4 17.7
300 -5.5 -1.8 5.3 1.7 2528.6 2.220 2200.2 0.322 56.6 18.0
350 -10.3 -2.8 7.4 2.0 2437.2 2.140 2044.1 0.382 67.2 18.3
400 -16.5 -3.9 9.9 2.4 2347.8 2.062 1896.7 0.445 78.3 18.7
450 -24.3 -5.2 12.8 2.7 2260.1 1.985 1757.8 0.510 89.7 19.0
500 -33.9 -6.5 16.2 3.1 2174.3 1.909 1626.8 0.578 101.6 19.4
550 -45.2 -7.8 20.1 3.5 2090.3 1.835 1503.6 0.648 114.0 19.8
600 -58.5 -9.3 24.4 3.9 2008.3 1.763 1387.9 0.721 126.9 20.2

Interesting enough to get similar drop rates to the 150s, with a Lighter 125grn Bullet you have to push the velocity to 3290fps.

200 -0.0 -0.0 3.0 1.4 2760.4 2.424 2114.5 0.199 35.1 16.7
250 -2.0 -0.8 4.7 1.8 2637.3 2.316 1930.2 0.255 44.8 17.1
300 -5.2 -1.7 6.9 2.2 2517.5 2.211 1758.8 0.313 55.1 17.5
350 -9.9 -2.7 9.7 2.6 2400.8 2.108 1599.6 0.374 65.8 18.0
400 -16.0 -3.8 12.9 3.1 2287.2 2.008 1451.8 0.438 77.1 18.4
450 -23.8 -5.0 16.7 3.5 2176.6 1.911 1314.7 0.505 88.9 18.9
500 -33.4 -6.4 21.1 4.0 2069.1 1.817 1188.0 0.576 101.4 19.4
550 -45.0 -7.8 26.2 4.5 1964.8 1.725 1071.3 0.650 114.5 19.9
600 -59.0 -9.4 32.0 5.1 1863.8 1.637 964.0 0.729 128.3 20.4

That would take a 300 Win Mag to do that.

With a 125grn bullet at the Speed of 3090fps, (what we chrono'd my then 308 with) It shows:

200 -0.0 -0.0 3.2 1.5 2582.6 2.268 1850.9 0.212 37.4 17.9
250 -2.4 -0.9 5.1 2.0 2464.2 2.164 1685.1 0.272 47.9 18.3
300 -6.2 -2.0 7.6 2.4 2348.9 2.063 1531.1 0.334 58.8 18.7
350 -11.5 -3.1 10.5 2.9 2236.7 1.964 1388.3 0.400 70.4 19.2
400 -18.6 -4.4 14.1 3.4 2127.4 1.868 1256.0 0.468 82.5 19.7
450 -27.7 -5.9 18.3 3.9 2021.3 1.775 1133.9 0.541 95.2 20.2
500 -38.8 -7.4 23.2 4.4 1918.5 1.685 1021.5 0.617 108.6 20.7
550 -52.3 -9.1 28.7 5.0 1819.2 1.597 918.4 0.697 122.7 21.3
600 -68.5 -10.9 35.1 5.6 1723.7 1.514 824.5 0.782 137.6 21.9

Not as flat over distance, and with Considerably less Energy delivered.

The 150grn range seems to be good balance of numbers.

Will see how accurate they prove tomorrow.

If you've made it this far, here's a pretty swell stock made in Norway sold by Kelby's for around $690

http://www.grsriflestocks.com/grodas/action-inlets

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2013/01/kelblys-unveils-kts-stock-1-8x24mm-march-and-grs-stocks/

Finally, here's a Ho in a bikini:

 

[computer fogie]

I'm curious how a 40gr bullet and also a 250gr bullet would perform, using the same methods.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

45grn, (.224 caliber) guessing at some of the specifics, and using 3200fps

200 -0.0 -0.0 6.7 3.2 2266.5 1.990 513.2 0.219 38.6 18.4
300 -8.4 -2.7 16.8 5.3 1826.0 1.603 333.1 0.367 64.5 20.5
400 -27.5 -6.6 33.4 8.0 1452.8 1.276 210.9 0.551 97.0 23.2
500 -63.3 -12.1 58.1 11.1 1177.1 1.034 138.4 0.782 137.6 26.3
600 -124.1 -19.7 90.7 14.4 1017.8 0.894 103.5 1.058 186.2 29.6

Paste de-formats everything.

Sierra makes a 240grn matchking in 30 cal.
https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/9245/308-dia-240-gr-HPBT-MatchKing-box-of-500

Assuming 2300fps, and .711 for it's BC.

200 -0.0 -0.0 2.4 1.2 2076.8 1.824 2298.1 0.274 48.3 23.0
300 -10.9 -3.5 5.6 1.8 1967.5 1.728 2062.5 0.423 74.4 23.7
400 -30.9 -7.4 10.3 2.5 1861.8 1.635 1847.0 0.579 102.0 24.3
500 -60.8 -11.6 16.6 3.2 1759.2 1.545 1649.0 0.745 131.2 25.0
600 -102.1 -16.2 24.6 3.9 1659.6 1.457 1467.5 0.921 162.1 25.8

Rather a Bloop Gun.

Boost velocity to say 2700fps.

200 -0.0 -0.0 1.9 0.9 2456.5 2.157 3215.3 0.233 41.0 19.6
300 -7.6 -2.4 4.4 1.4 2337.7 2.053 2911.7 0.358 63.0 20.1
400 -21.6 -5.2 8.1 1.9 2222.1 1.951 2630.8 0.490 86.2 20.6
500 -42.7 -8.1 12.9 2.5 2109.2 1.852 2370.3 0.628 110.6 21.1
600 -71.5 -11.4 19.1 3.0 1998.8 1.755 2128.7 0.774 136.3 21.7

Still not as flat.

3000fps

200 -0.0 -0.0 1.7 0.8 2740.2 2.406 4000.7 0.209 36.8 17.6
300 -6.0 -1.9 3.8 1.2 2613.7 2.295 3639.8 0.321 56.5 18.0
400 -17.1 -4.1 6.9 1.7 2490.6 2.187 3305.0 0.439 77.2 18.4
500 -33.8 -6.4 11.1 2.1 2370.8 2.082 2994.8 0.562 99.0 18.9
600 -56.6 -9.0 16.4 2.6 2254.3 1.979 2707.7 0.692 121.8 19.4

2707ft-lbs of energy.


1st time I shot a 1000 yard match I used the JBM link to get an estimated zero.

I had a 100 yard zero, but had no clue how much to come up for 1000.

26.5-27 MOA was the answer. Wouldn't have hit the target frame without that.

At the same match there was a guy shooting a 7mm Mag, with 180grn Berger VLDs. I asked him his dope, he said 19MOA.

For a second, I thought, Hell I'm only 7 minutes off that with my 06! Then I did remembered, 1 moa = 10.(something) at 1000 yards, so 70 inches!

Plus too, after all this bullshit decoding, you still have to the read the wind, mirage, and make the shot!

 

[computer fogie]

Shit I was just kidding, you didn't have to do that.

I forgot the 40gr bullet for a .30 is a .224 with sabot. I think a 110gr is the lightest in .30.

Barnes used to make a 250gr .30.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

JBM saves the previous visit, no big deal, (Yes it's slow at work today)

I can see why people are going to those Horus Reticles, or some of the others that extrapolate between mildots. Flatter shooting loads can leave you hanging in between.

 

[computer fogie]

Do the unlimited Robogun bench shooters use calculations, or do they just figure it out by experimentation?

 

[Stupafied]

is that a rem 700 action?

30/06 is something i never got into i have a 308 and 300wm but those are decent ballistics what kind of groups do you get?

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

Do the unlimited Robogun bench shooters use calculations, or do they just figure it out by experimentation?

Combo of Both is my guess.

 

[computer fogie]

It's impressive how close the calculations were for you. Cool stuff.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

is that a rem 700 action?

30/06 is something i never got into i have a 308 and 300wm but those are decent ballistics what kind of groups do you get?

In the pic? Looks like it, or a clone.

With my standard 175grn load I got 1.65 inch group at 300 yards.

I'll see how these 150 Noslers, and 155grn palmas do tomorrow @ 100.

(if they're good I'll post pics, if not, I'll fail to mention it!)

I was going to build a separate rifle with a 13 twist barrel, but then I decided just to try them in the 10 twist gun I already have.

 

[Stupafied]

In the pic? Looks like it, or a clone.

With my standard 175grn load I got 1.65 inch group at 300 yards.

I'll see how these 150 Noslers, and 155grn palmas do tomorrow @ 100.

(if they're good I'll post pics, if not, I'll fail to mention it!)

I was going to build a separate rifle with a 13 twist barrel, but then I decided just to try them in the 10 twist gun I already have.

post the result either way I wonder if the lighter bullets will stabilize at 100 yards but 1.65 at 300 yards is nuts what rig are you running?

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

It's impressive how close the calculations were for you. Cool stuff.

The Key is Truing the results. You could certainly miss using just the numbers, shooting beyond 350 yards.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

post the result either way I wonder if the lighter bullets will stabilize at 100 yards but 1.65 at 300 yards is nuts what rig are you running?

This thing:

It's 1947 Winchester Model 70. It's got a big ass laminated stock, I paid way too much for, ($1200), a 26 inch Krieger Barrel with a near tight neck chamber, Burris 6-24X Euro Black Diamond Target Scope.


I just bought a new scope to try, and found an old time Pre-64 Winchester Target Stock on ebay, (only $110). I'm going to try it for a while (once I get it bedded to this action), Cause I won't care if it gets bumped varmint hunting.

 

[Stupafied]

Sexy not a bush gun that is for sure harris bipod? Did you build the rifle for target purpose or hunting?

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

I wanted it it for both, so it's on the heavy side.

Some brand-X bipod. That stock doesn't handle well off a bipod, it jumps straight up. Off a bag, or some soft rest, or with a sling it's great, though.

Stock has a rail for sling stops. it's around 17lbs with the expensive stock, it'll be 15 with the new used ebay stock. Still a pig buy hunting standards.

The note card on the first pic are the dial up notes for the target scope. It works, but it's old style. The gun's old style though.

Here's another one of my junkers before I sold it to a buddy of mine.

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f65/tubegun-rifle-report-nighttime-critter-hunt-2603605/

 

[Stupafied]

its nice i love that huge haul for one night but i never bought any AR rifles since i live in Canada and restricted rifles are not allowed for hunting but my newest buy was a T97 Chinese bullpup and its really nice since it is classified non restricted which means it can be taken to the bush. Don't ask me to explain the gun laws of Canada it does not even make sense.

 

[Chesten_Hesten]

Weather was hot today.

Started by Chronoing my standard 175grn load. Previously it clocked at 2950, today it was 2909fps.

The two rounds I tested were:

155grn Sierra matchking, (palma) clocked at 2990fps.

150grn Nosler Ballistic tip Clocked at 3080fps

I'm rather a shit bench shooter, I never use a proper setup, but always this sort of thing:

It easy to see-saw the group with no rear bag, but on the other hand, I always felt, whatever accuracy I achieved like that was bound to be closer to what i get in the field, than any benched up, locked down setup.

Conditions were sun and clouds and clouds and sun, and boiling mirage. the temp climbed from 85 to 93 degrees in the 45 minutes I was there.

I had 10rnds. of each load, and 5 of my 175grn control load.

Between the chrono not reading, and zeroing while trying to shoot groups I ened up running out of the 150s.

Here's the 1st group with the 155 Palmas:

End up with only 4 shots to test the 150s, and ended up see sawing the group downward. No excuses, just shit shooting.

I think they'll be accurate too though, I'll try them at another time.

I totally pooched the 2nd group with the Palmas as well:

Gun liked the Palmas, with their heavy jackets they should do well on long range hogs.

I liked the speed of the 150s, I wish the 155s would've broken 3000fps.

Now to re-enter these numbers in the ballistics program to see what it says on the drop out to 600.