[James Keith]

First: Jarhead was a shitty movie. Second: I'm at least reasonably aware of the sniper training.

If the very training teaches you how to avoid being seen by the enemy, in conditions way closer than what you'd ever expect to be in combat, how exactly does this support your theory that snipers are somehow super courageous?

Snipers are trained to be out of sight and to fire without being seen or being able to be traced. Even if they can be traced, usually snipers are too far away to be targetted, and would have plenty of time to get away before being targetted.

Training tries to make it as safe as possible for you. This is a relative thing, in absolute terms it is far from safe. The enemy will have their own snipers and others hunting you and they know your tricks.

 

[Madmick]

I remember when I used to like this guy. He doesn't seem to understand that war is not about honor, and it's not about fairness. It's about winning, and it's about not dying.

 

[Mr Holmes]

I don't know anyone cares what this tub of crap thinks.

 

[KILL KILL]

First: Jarhead was a shitty movie. Second: I'm at least reasonably aware of the sniper training.

If the very training teaches you how to avoid being seen by the enemy, in conditions way closer than what you'd ever expect to be in combat, how exactly does this support your theory that snipers are somehow super courageous?

Snipers are trained to be out of sight and to fire without being seen or being able to be traced. Even if they can be traced, usually snipers are too far away to be targetted, and would have plenty of time to get away before being targetted.

Snipers are trained to evade being seen. However, it's virtually impossible to completely avoid detection within a populated city.

This is why sniper teams mostly operate in larger groups and carry a lot of firepower so that they can defend themselves when things get bad. It's not like in Vietnam where you can slink back into the jungle after firing off a shot. One of my buddies, who was a sniper, got in a sticky situation where he was lobbing grenades off the side of the building just to get away.

A sniper is one of the most effective tools on the battlefield. There is nothing more psychologically damaging to an enemy than being picked apart by someone you can't see.

And do you know the most effective way to neutralize this threat (aside from dropping a big ass bomb on their head)? Use another sniper! So, snipers also have to worry about being sniped themselves.

There's a lot that go into being a sniper. The majority of the work done is collecting Intel. This means putting yourself into a hostile area and spying on enemy positions.

 

[Diamond Jim]

Chris Kyle wasn't a coward. He did the job he was tasked with. Do I believe everything he said to be true? No. I don't agree with the way he believed he was on some Christian crusader on a holy mission either but I wouldn't call him a coward.

 

[Lead]

Preaches income equality.....

Net worth 50 million (Top .01% of the US)

:icon_lol:

 

[Erik Freydis]

Preaches income equality.....

Net worth 50 million (Top .01% of the US)

:icon_lol:

He also bangs on about the wonders of diversity and calls white people racist for moving out of areas once blacks move in, yet lives in a Michigan township that is almost 100% white.

 

[taknocks]

No, surgeons are not in danger. They therefore cannot exercise courage. They are demonstrating remarkable skill and a moral regard for the lives of another in their hands, but they are not going to end up dying by failing to do well.

You seem to think I am insulting someone by saying the one action in question is not courageous. I'm not: You can be virtuous without being courageous. Different virtues for different times.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/courage

cour

 

[AlucardNatasrd]

Training tries to make it as safe as possible for you. This is a relative thing, in absolute terms it is far from safe. The enemy will have their own snipers and others hunting you and they know your tricks.

So there is a remote chance you will be counter sniped. Okay.

 

[AlucardNatasrd]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/courage

cour

 

[KILL KILL]

So there is a remote chance you will be counter sniped. Okay.

Snipers patrol with the grunts. They get shot and blown up just like everyone else. Please get off your high horse.

 

[west42]

Michael Moore's definition of a hero is a cashier at 7/11 who puts a few extra scoops of cheese on his nachos without charging for it.

 

[Mr Holmes]

What would he have to fear? He is safe as all hell.I can see difficulty, although when I think of courage, I am not thinking about "man, this is so hard, I am showing SUCH COURAGE by taking it on". Seeking challenges seems like a very distinct form of virtue.

Cmon bruh.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

What is your reaction?

All I get out of that is that his uncle was worse than a coward?

 

[Stokanator]

Moore doesn't seem to comprehend that it doesn't hold much weight when a fat ass pansy Hollywood film maker who walks around with bodyguards calls a person who risked their lives for this country a coward!! Everyone knows Michael Moore is a POS who's never committed a courageous act in his entire lifetime!

 

[taknocks]

What would he have to fear? He is safe as all hell.

I can see difficulty, although when I think of courage, I am not thinking about "man, this is so hard, I am showing SUCH COURAGE by taking it on". Seeking challenges seems like a very distinct form of virtue.

As I said earlier, he's taking responsibility for the lives of other soldiers. He has to be completely aware of their surroundings and be ready to react immediately with lethal precision or potentially see several of his fellow soldiers killed. He also has to make the tough calls on which targets are actually threats when it's not so obvious. It seems like common sense there would be fear involved. I imagine most soldiers fear letting their fellow soldiers down more than they fear for their own safety, which is exactly how Kyle was portrayed in the movie. To the point that he wanted to knock down doors with the ground units so he could help them inside of the buildings instead of only being able to protect them on the streets.

I'll leave it at that since we're just going in circles.

 

[Ippwnage]

What is your reaction?

well, lets hear his solution to end war
oh, and saying shit on twitter about being coward? well, go say this to a sniper's face.

 

[InvestigatorIL]

I like Michael Moore but he is wrong here. It's not the infantryman's fault wars are fought the way they are.
Kill or be killed

 

[D Train]

Unless it's a pitched battle Braveheart-style then Moore must think every tactic is cowardice.

Seriously. Would he prefer we go Revolutionary War style?

 

[Toothless King]

So there is a remote chance you will be counter sniped. Okay.

When I was in Iraq, the sniper team attached to my platoon went on foot patrol with the rest of us grunts kicking in doors. One of them even earned a purple heart and a silver star. You don't earned those medals for being a "coward" because you are hiding away shooting at people 1 mile away.